Kaisa Vuorinen: Happy Kids Learn Best, But Not Without Happy Teachers

Mark Taylor 00:00:00

Hello. Welcome back to Education on Fire. Today I'm delighted to be chatting to Kaisa Vuorinen, Ph.D. and she is a Finnish researcher, educator, speaker, author and the founder and CEO of Positive Learning Now. Her work focuses on positive education, character strength, social emotional skills, well being and flourishing in education. Kaiser has trained teachers and educational leaders in over 30 countries and has spoken at numerous international conferences and educational forums around the world. Now she's the creator and co author of the award winning See the Good Approach which helps schools systematically identify, teach and strengthen students character strengths and social emotional skills. Kaisa is the author and co author of several books and teaching materials as well as scientific publications and her work combines research with practical tools for everyday school life. Hello, my name is Mark Taylor and welcome to the Education on Far podcast, The place for creative and inspiring learning from around the world. Listen to teachers, parents and mentors share how they are supporting children to live their best authentic life and are proving to be a guiding light to us all. Hi Kaisa thanks so much for joining us here on the Education on Far podcast. We first met at the whole education conference back before the summer holidays and it was very exciting to meet you. I got really excited about what it was that you were talking about in terms of See the good mainly I think, because I talk a lot on the podcast about a silver bullet. You know, we could change the education system, we could change a million things about the curriculum. Except of course we don't individually have the power to do that and there are many governments that aren't doing that and I think a lot of people get sort of downhearted from that. But I think having listened to you and the way that you approach learning and education based on the research as well, the fact that it always comes down to your conversation, your understanding of the people that are in the room with you, your pupils, your peers, and how you can make a difference in literally in the in the next conversation you have. And I think that's a really important thing to do and something I wanted to really make sure everyone explained and we're we're going to do a series of little recordings as well from sort of different character traits. We've been talking about doing some live shows as well so make sure you're following subscribes everything wherever you're listening to the podcast, it's all free. Just make sure you've clicked all those buttons to make sure that you you don't miss any of the stuff we're talking about today, but also the follow up stuff as well. So thank you so much indeed for joining me today and yeah, really excited about where we're going to take this.

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:02:25

Yeah, me too. Thanks for having me, Mark, and greetings from Finland and I'm really excited about this conversation. And I remember how we met also and you were such a kind person, like giving me the trust and you had a lot of curiosity around my work and then you came to a booth and I was so excited to meet the first English person excited about my work because at the whole education conference I didn't know almost anyone, so I didn't know what to expect. And then it was Mark, your presence, your kindness, your curiosity that really made a difference in my day and now in my professional life. So thanks for having me here today and I'm looking forward for the conversation and what might become possible after this.

Mark Taylor 00:03:13

Brilliant. Well, let's start then in terms of, let's start from where we were at the conference because you gave a really great overview of, of what it was that you were doing and the different aspects of your life in terms of, you know, being in the classroom, the overwhelm, how difficult it is that so many people listening will understand as well. But then in terms of taking that into research and then lots of people talk about what's possible, but then to actually go ahead and build something or write something which makes a difference is amazing. So, so sort of take us on that journey to begin with and then we can dive into some of the, the actual sort of technical elements of it.

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:03:50

Thanks, Mark. Well, it's a pretty long story, but I may start from somewhere. So. So basically in Finland, I have been a teacher. I started as a class teacher first and after that I studied more and I graduated as a special needs teacher. And at that time, when I graduated as a special needs teacher, I didn't have the knowledge and the skills I needed in order to help my students. My students were very active. They were very passionate about learning. However, they had a lot of, you might say, difficulties in their behavior, in learning. They were lacking many, many critical skills such as self regulation, social skills, perseverance, or perhaps they didn't lack the skills. But in our school and in the school building, they were unable to utilize these skills. And I was a little bit lost. I was burning out as a teacher since my students had so many difficult difficulties and I didn't know how to really meet them where they were at. I needed tools, I needed understanding and I needed something more than that I had at that time. So I started to look at different resources I started to study and to create this kind of like strengths based education in my small classroom with six to eight students and from my own personal struggles and the struggles of my students who were mainly seen through their difficulties and not at all through their strengths, I gave birth this solution called See the Good. But it was a long story, it was a roller coaster and I kind of like did a lot by myself, but I had a great team behind bringing this solution to life. But originally I'm just a teacher who were struggling. I needed help, I needed tools. So I started to solve my own problem problems and later on I realized that these problems are universal. Quite many teachers struggle with the same things. So here I am today talking about my own problems and my solution with Mark Taylor from England. So,.

Mark Taylor 00:06:03

And I think it's, it's so important for people to hear, like you said, it's universal. It doesn't matter what country you're, you're from and, and we'll talk a little bit about know, taking this to America and various different countries around the world that use it. But essentially we're just human people connecting. And that might be peer to peer, it might be teacher to pupil. But I think the thing that really struck me was the fact that like you said at the whole education conference in the workshop, it was that kind of when you get a new set of people, you get a list of students and a whole list of things which are an issue, a list of things which are problems, a list of things you have to be aware of which you need to sort of take into account. But they're all on the negative side. None of them are on the, this child is brilliant at this, or this is their strength or this is something that you can be aware of where you can start to really engage in a conversation. And it just struck me that's such an obvious thing to do, but struck me as something which was quite unique and that's quite a sad situation to be in. So take, take us into that sort of flip sort of philosophy. Yeah,.

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:07:10

Yeah, you got it right. So basically when I started as a special needs teacher even here in Finland, Mark, we are the leading in education, this is the educational hub. Yet I mean like 20, 15 years ago when I started as a special needs teacher, the way we treated students that were struggling at school was pretty much this kind of like behavioristic, the kind of like deficit model was evident. So I got these six to eight students and I got a long, long list and history around their difficulties, their diagnosis, the problems they were having. Before I even met them. And then again, I had no idea about what is working. Despite all of the difficulties. There was like no diagnosis about their strengths, the strengths that they really have and possess, all the talents, all the beautiful skills they would have so that I could help them by utilizing their strengths to overcome the problems they may face at school. So this was the imbalance and the negativity was all over the place. So kind of like my students were struggling and I was trained to see more problems as I was trained to see their strengths, the ones that I could use to really help them. So this was the difficulty I was facing. And nobody succeeds at school by adults telling them what's not working. And nobody wants to come to the school if the teacher is like, hey, what went wrong yesterday? And starts by looking at the difficulties the student is having. So basically I needed to really rediscover myself. I needed to really have tools to really build the education which is aligned with my values, which are love, compassion, equity, and all such beautiful values that I wanted to have as key. Key, kind of like part of who I am as a teacher and how I'm able to really help my students to really reach their full potential. So I was in trouble and I started to discover something new and fresh at my school building and that became a phenomenal thing in Finland later on.

Mark Taylor 00:09:18

Yeah. And so take us into that, because that's quite a journey, isn't it? From understanding there's a problem being able to then work out what's supportive and helpful for you. But then that could have just stopped within the sort of the four walls of your. Of your classroom. But take us into that then into the research and part in the university and the studying that you did that enabled it to grow and, and become something that people could sort of tangibly go, oh, now I understand it's not just based on my individual experience, but it's something that we can sort of comprehend together.

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:09:51

Yeah. So, so basically, as. As we all know us as human beings, all kids, all young people or adults, we all have the same basic psychological needs, the needs to belong, the need to be capable of doing many, many things, the need to re. Really feel that I. People trust me, that I'm capable of like being a person in any community. I'm actively particip. So basically these were the needs that my student had been able to meet and the teachers were unable to. Haven't been able to meet the needs of my students. And also my students were struggling because they were lacking the skills. The skills That I mentioned like self regulation, perseverance, social skills and such skills. So at that time in Finland there was like no programming to teach kind of like these skills, skills of character. We were very good at teaching the skills of mind, I mean the more cognitive skills. Yet we were lacking comprehensive, sustainable ways in which we could build the skills my students were need of and many, many other students as well. So at that time I contacted my university, University of Helsinki, and I kind of like met this one professor and she had been looking at positive psychology and positive education through her career. And then we came together and she suggested that I could see start building this kind of like programming in Finland which could really help all students, not only the ones who are struggling, but basically all students to really be capable of many, many other things, not only the skills of mind. So together we started to look at the research. Research, I mean, and actually there was one big research coming from England called Strength Gym. And she pointed at me this one book which was a study that had been cond in the English schools. And I started to looking at this programming and we decided together that let's start studying wellness and happiness in schools through the lens of teaching character strengths to the students. So this is how my study originated. And then later on I did several intervention studies that were not easy to really develop and kind of like bring to the schools. However, we were resilient, we were persistent in that sense that we really wanted to make this thing happen inside the Finnish school buildings. And so I became a researcher around character, strengths, wellness and happiness in schools in Finland.

Mark Taylor 00:12:27

And I think the key thing you said there, which I think so many people forget, is that we do this because we're trying to help people who need help. And a bit like we said before, you have people come in and you had all the negative side of things as well. But seeing everyone in the whole and understanding that these character strengths and the sort of working and research that you've done, it affects everybody, whether they're high achieving, if they're low achieving, if they're in the middle, what, however you want to describe where their learning's at, everyone's individual. And so even if someone is perceived to be doing well and not struggling, understanding who they are and their character strengths can only enhance their learning experience and themselves anyway. So like, I love the fact that it's that this is for everybody. It's not just if you happen to be struggling as a teacher or you feel there are people that need extra support. It's something you can encompass and bring into your world for everybody and everyone will benefit. Sort of the tide literally does sort of rides all the boats. And I think that's a really lovely important thing to remember rather than it just being a sense of intervention, which I think so many, so often that can be sort of how people take these sorts of things.

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:13:38

Yeah, exactly. And as we speak at the moment, through the global studies, we know that well being and academic learning go hand in hand. So they are not competing one another, they are actually complementing one another. And with character strengths we are able to really bring this wellness and well being as a skill to the whole school. So we are not only kind of like focusing on the minds of the students, rather also the hearts and the hands of the students. So it's a holistic way to really make sure that our students that are only learning the more academic skills, but they're also learning the skills for life, the skills for future, but also the skills they need every day when they study, when they are with their peers or at home, whatever we do, we really need these character strengths. A strong character is something that really promotes a good life.

Mark Taylor 00:14:33

So what is it that you think is the reason for this being an issue? Do you think it's a social related thing? Are these skills the sorts of things maybe children learnt and understood in a previous generation because it was part of what they learned as they were growing up, maybe from their family or because society was different and it's a sort of a modern phenomenon? Or do you think it's more the fact that we're now just more aware of all these characters being integral to who we are and we're just more aware of them being important and being understanding how we can deliver them in sort of the modern world?

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:15:08

That's a great question that I have been pondering upon a lot the past 15 years. And I think how we kind of like look at the education nowadays, it's pretty problematic since we are so obsessed with academic excellence, with testing, with pouring in the information to our students and we might forget that we have to prepare our students for life. We currently prepare our students for tests. So in that sense, I think the culture has changed a lot. And in that sense schools are filled with things that teachers need to teach and go about. And then we might forget what is the really essence of education? Why are we entering the school building every day? How does the future look like? And what are the critical skills we really need to teach and to look after the ones that never go out of fashion. And I think at the moment, as we are discovering these topics together, Mark, I feel that since there's a lot of anxiety, depression and hopelessness and isolation in the society, I think we have this me, me, me generation whereabout we look at individual students, we look at ourselves and we might forget that we are social animals as human beings and we really need to come together and build this education around. We wellness starts with we illness starts with I. So character education and this, see the good programming is all about bridging people together, coming together, learning together, having fun while learning, and really kind of like building the skills of heart, which are also the ones that when AI revolution is now happening, they are the skills we need. Critical thinking, social intelligence, perseverance to pursue our goals, and all the skills that no computer can ever replace in ourselves and within our communities. So I think we are now very timely, Mark, when we look at the skills of heart, the character, strengths and wellness of our students.

Mark Taylor 00:17:30

And that's so good to hear because I think so often, you know, I talk on the podcast, having spoken to so many people and I have, it is just as a, my perception based on these sort of conversations across many, many hours, which I, which I really love. But it's great to chat to somebody who's done the research, someone who's living this sort of on a day to day basis, both sort of in the classroom and outside of the classroom in terms of training and everything. And I just want to pick up on that. One thing which I think was so true from what I was thinking about before is it's almost like we've got the worst of both sides of the coin is the fact that a generation or two ago life seemed much easier because there was more freedom, it was more relaxed, you went to school to learn. And it felt even in my generation, a little bit lighter, so to speak. And like I say, because of the testing, that's very different. And so in school you've got a different feeling and people have got different pressures in terms of it being an academic focus, but you're also not having the natural learning of the character which you had just from life generally as well. So you're sort of losing on both sides of those coins. And so, and I think it's very easy to then forget that, you know, a generation goes by, your parents don't remember what that was like. And so young children who got young parents have never experienced that either. And so you don't even get the positivity or the understanding from previous generations, like say society is different now you don't live in a multi generational society with lots of families together and you can start to see how, oh, we find ourselves in a world which is maybe not as positive or as conducive or as humane as we might have done before. And that's not to say that the world was brilliant a generation or two ago necessarily as well. But I think having these conversations and understanding. Ah, right. So we need to know this is important and how do we go about making it integral to what we do. And then like you say, making sure children understand what it is and how they can put their best foot forward with these character traits. And so even if life is difficult, even if we're still testing and the schools are still focusing on the academic, academic side, we can give you the skills that you need, but also the understanding that this is just where we are now and your life is beyond school. There's things that you can do within your life, outside of school as well, both in the here and now, and also for the future as well. And I think it's great to sort of hear how that works. So we should probably now talk about how you go about doing that. So I've, I've got your book here, you've got an online platform, you've been taking it into different countries. So what is it that you've created? How have you put this information together that people can learn what those things are and how does that get brought into the classroom and into their life?

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:20:17

Thank you, Mark. I'm very excited to talk about this topic as well with you. So basically I'm very passionate about education. I wake up in the morning because I'm kind of like, I'm for the rights of every human being to really find their strengths, to be at their very best and to really feel that they are capable of many things and they feel that they're included in the society, in schools. And I'm for kind of like human rights, meaning that I think that all children and young people need to have the right to feel that adults around them see the good in them, promote their beautiful strengths and to really help them to become the people they could be. So in that sense, I think my main purpose in my work is to work with teachers and with principals, since we know that students really, Mark, they would forget what you taught them, but they never forget how you made them feel around them. So I think in this sense I'm touching my heart actually, because I have been doing a lot of research and kind of like writing and Thinking around teachers, and I know that teachers are currently, they are overwhelmed, they are struggling. There's a lot of demands around teaching and preparing our students for the future. On the other hand, we know from the research that what really matters in schools is the relationship between the teacher and the student. If the teacher feels good about themselves, if the teacher is motivated, has values in the right place, and knows why she comes to the school every day, that really resonates within the student. And if the student could think that this teacher really likes me, they are capable of so, so, so many things. So this positive interaction and this relationship between teachers and students, that's the critical part of my work. How to enhance and help both sides. How to help students to come to the school and have the skills they need for better learning. And then on the other hand, how to help teachers to really recognize their personal strengths. How to build these positive school cultures where about all teachers can feel better about themselves. And then how they build these positive, warm relationships, because without those, there is no good learning, there is no good teaching. And therefore, my slogan with the programming I'm having is this kind of like, which is in my T shirt, Happy kids learn best, but not without happy teachers. And then again, also, we need to look at the school and its culture, the values we are having, and how do we every day kind of like come together and understand the things that we can make sure that happens between all the human beings working in the school. So students, teachers, and then ultimately, the whole school culture is in the heart of my work.

Mark Taylor 00:23:24

And so in terms of making the biggest difference, I'm assuming that that means that you need to make sure that the people with the most voice, for a better phrase, are the people that are sort of allowing that to filter down. So we might be talking today, and there's a teacher who thinks, great, I can get the book and I can read about this and I can bring it into my classroom. But in order for it to be a culture shift, everybody needs the thinking the same way. Everybody needs to feel like this is what we're doing and why we're doing it. So I guess, are you talking to sort of head teachers, people who are leading schools, school districts, districts. It needs to be those sorts of people that are kind of going to be able to make the most difference across the most pupils.

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:24:09

Yes, Mark, you named it. It all starts with the question, why? Why does this school exist? Why am I working in this school? Why do I teach? So basically, it boils down to understanding my own why. And if I can't find the right reasons. If I'm not motivated, if I don't anymore find meaning, be it the head teacher, be it a teacher, then I need to critically think, is this the place where I am supposed to go every day? Because students, they really kind of like need, and they want to be at their very best, but they also need good teachers and good head teachers who have the heart in the right place and the right values guiding their work. So in that sense, it's very important that we start with the why, the vision of the school. And I mean, education as a whole, it's about relationships. We learn best within groups. We learn best in these relationships. So we need to understand that before we can start teaching the academic subject. We have to really make sure that all students and teachers feel safe life. They feel they belong, and they feel that they are capable of bringing their best strengths to the school so that everybody feel that within this school building with these people, I'm capable of doing these things. And of course, we would have struggle, we would have stress, we have, like, difficult days. But then again, it's all about the why, the why of the school. When I work with the leaders, I always start with that question and then the vision of the to school, the human perceptions. What do I believe about human beings, about students? What are we capable of doing and kind of like accomplishing together? So it's very humane. It's very humane. And at the same time, it's about the relationships and how can we make those more compassionate, kind, and positive, in a sense.

Mark Taylor 00:26:14

So out of the work that you're doing, just give us a little bit of an overview of how people can. Can get the positive from it. So they can read the book. They can. They can sign up to the platform. Do they work hand in hand? Is there a funnel into one, into the other? What's the best way for people to sort of engage in it?

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:26:33

Yeah. So when we, for example, me and my team, we have developed throughout the past 10 years, first we developed the research, we conducted these intervention studies. We got good results out of teaching these character strengths and creating these more positive classrooms and school building. After that, there was like so many people who wanted to understand, like, what is happening inside your classroom and your school building. So with the other founder of Siddharth, the professor Lotta Usdala from the University of Helsinki, we started writing the books and the character strength cards. And after that couple of years, we were training teachers in Finland and in other countries. And it was like seven years ago in Finland when we were able to win the biggest prize in a societal competition, meaning we could bring our ideas on how to solve the problems of students were seen more from deficits than from strengths. So we got the rate recognition, we had this award and with this money, this prize, we founded this programming called See the Good. And we gathered a team of Finnish researchers, designers and teachers coming together and starting really building the solution. Meaning teacher trainings online, on site and then nowadays AI guys that could coach you, Marc as well, if you are in need of my advice, then we have this digital platform. We have been building it through our research. So it's a library for teachers to really teach about the skills of character, the skills for well being and happiness. And then we have books and cards and after 10 years I've been training teachers and principals and leaders around positive education in over 30 countries. And it's something that I, I really love and enjoy doing.

Mark Taylor 00:28:26

So take us into the, the different country element of it because we said, you know, we're all humans, we're all connecting in the same way in some ways. But of course when there's a language barrier, when there's a society difference, I would imagine when you were working in New York, that's going to be very different than when you're working in Finland. So give me, give me a little bit of an idea of some of the, some of the experience you, experiences you've had when you're doing it within different societies, within different cultures and kind of how it sort of comes together because we know it's human to human, but the differences that you, I guess you have to overcome or explain in, in a way to make people understand from those different places.

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:29:07

Thank you Mark for the great question. And by the way, because of the difficult kind of like different societies and different cultures we are having within education, we needed to create something very simple, something that really people can recognize and say yes, I can do this. So we created out of our research and our expertise this like three step methodology which is called See the Good Method. And it all starts by kind of like having first the attitude, kind of like understanding that there is many, many bad things around us. Negativity, shouting at the same time. There is a lot of positive things going on. There's a lot of hope, there is a lot of kindness and compassion that we just need to start recognizing. So the first step for anybody interested in our method is of like starting to looking at more of the things that are already working instead of looking at the difficulties. The second step which Is Mark so critical? It's all about, for example. Thank you, Mark. Today I witnessed you utilizing curiosity. You have been asking so many beautiful and insightful questions around see the good. So thank you for having the curiosity. It really helps me. So language for the beautiful things we are having, the vocabulary of strengths that really does make a huge difference in any organization, in any school, in any relationship. So basically teachers recognizing the strengths students are using or practicing before they even notice those themselves and putting words to those and thirdly, acting on the things we want to see more of, acting on the skills of characters. So basically practicing perseverance, parents together, practicing compassion, practicing creativity. And for that we need lesson plans, we need help teachers to really be able to have plug and play lessons to teach the skills for wellness, the skills of character. So kind of like first see the good, speak about the good and then grow the good. That is how we usually work when we work with different schools in different countries. And Mark. Mark. So I've been training teachers, like tens of thousands of teachers around the globe and it has been fun and interesting, yet it's sometimes very difficult to try to bring this solution and to finish educational excellence to different countries, which may hold different beliefs about education, different beliefs about human beings and different values. So it hasn't been easy to really change the school cultures in some countries, yet it has been insightful for me to understand the barriers and the things on the other hand that are universal to us as human beings when it comes to education and improving it.

Mark Taylor 00:32:00

And I think what you said there, I think really touches on the thing that struck me when we first met is the sense that like, say it can be very complex because we're different countries, different backgrounds, different societies, and yet at the end of the day, it's very simple. The way you explain those three steps to making it part of, of how your school or your education system could work makes a lot of sense. You know, by sort of demonstrating, by sharing, by being able to pull these things together in. And just those three elements, of course that's going to make a big difference. The, the obviousness of the. About. If we're going to think of it just being about all your negative issues, how is it ever going to change? Just by thinking we're going to see the good and we're going to put that in place in its most simplest form. That has to be a better way. And I think that's what I got really excited about, was the fact that I think everyone can see in here that's got to Work, it's got to be a better way of doing it. So even if, like you say, I feel like my system's all about the testing and I'm still struggling, I've still got pressures on me, I know that I can do something in any of those elements we've talked about today that's going to make a difference to me, which, like you say, is then going to make a difference to the people that I'm surrounding and certainly my pupils. And I think that that ripple effect is. Is the key thing. And the more people hear about that and say, the more that people can take it on board, the better that has to be for everybody.

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:33:26

Yeah. And basically, Mark, as you know, I'm a teacher myself, and there's a lot of teachers out there who wouldn't necessarily know the things that they are good at. They don't necessarily know their strengths. And on the other hand, the school principals, the head teachers, may not be able to lead the right team. People are having wrong roles. They are unable to really put their best strengths to action every day at school. And we know from scientific research that when people recognize their personal strengths and the collective strengths the school is having, and then again, when I'm able to come to the school and really do the more of the things that I love that I feel that I'm capable of, I love and I enjoy my work. We have much more motivation, more positive emotions. People have more resilience and less negative emotions and less stress. So it's a huge. It makes a huge, huge difference when teachers start by looking at their personal strengths, and then they're able to really put those into the action inside the school building. I've seen the change in myself, in my peers, my colleagues, and now in our global work. And it's so exciting to really work with teachers globally and, and start with. By looking at their personal strengths and then talk about those, and then really make sure that they are able to do more of things that they really love. They feel at ease and especially authentic.

Mark Taylor 00:34:45

Yes. And. And I think that's the thing I've always loved about speaking to people on the podcast, is the fact that we can talk about the positive, we can talk about the negative, but when you see the change that happens, you know, like I say, by creating, see the good, by having the conversation, by doing the research, the fact that you're a different person from everything that we've spoken about now, which has that ripple effect, not only to the people you were teaching, but all the people you're able to coach and support as we go through as well. Then you start to go, that's a really positive thing. Generally, the world can change. We just collectively need to kind of come together and understand the essence of what we're doing and ask those. Those important questions, why we're doing it, and then what that can look like. And then enough people are doing that, then it's going to make the biggest.

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:35:32

Difference. And I mean, the change in schools doesn't happen overnight. And the change we want to and the things we want to see more of in our students and in our teachers, it does need kind of like, we need more than posters on the walls. We need good leading, we need good leadership. We need right people in the right roles. We need teachers to have enough understanding and tool to really make sure that they are able to do their very best. And then again, we need to help our students to really acquire the skills they need for the good life, for the happiness, and for being able to be resilient with the face of difficulties. So I think this sense, it's kind of like something we have to choose every day. It's not like, be positive, don't be positive. Be kind, be curious, be compassionate. Have the right values guiding your work. And then let's come together and let's build this. We things we can do together. And we are more resilient when we are together and really have this understanding. Why does this school exist? What is important for us? And how can we make sure that things could and would change when we do things intentionally in our culture? Culture. Since we are how the culture is, we become how the school culture is. And the culture needs to be visible. It needs to be lit. It needs to be something that we are passionate about, something that we want to really kind of like, make a difference in our own lives and the lives of our students. Of course, we cannot be every day, like, passionate about teaching. But there needs to be all the time something that I really all kind of enjoy. This is the thing for me. I want to be here with the students. I could even say that I love more the people I teach than what I teach. So if I may say, love is very important for me. So I always talk about love. Even if people would get like, don't talk about love. But I think it's important to really love what we do and be able to do more of the things we love.

Mark Taylor 00:37:42

Yeah. And I think that kind of. You talked about being authentic and earlier. I think that's really key because there are some days which are just going to be difficult. There are some situations which aren't going to be. This is the greatest day of the world. And I can tell I'm making a massive difference. But.

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:37:57

Exactly.

Mark Taylor 00:37:58

But. But understanding that I have the skills and the character understanding of how I get back to that, whether it's something I'm doing for me that changes my perception in my life today, which I then bring back this afternoon or tomorrow or whatever that happens to be. Be. Or just the fact I'm able to go, this was a really difficult one. I got it great. I got it. Not so great, whatever it happens to be. But then we're all learning together. And so I think what I want to do now is just remind people at the beginning, beginning we said we were going to sort of not just have a conversation and disappear a little bit. Like, let's not put the poster on the wall and this is what we're all about. Let's make sure we're going to do more of it. So our aim is to kind of have lots of sort of mini recordings of lots of the different character traits that we're able to then so we can show and explain and you can really kind of.

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:38:47

Go.

Mark Taylor 00:38:47

On this journey with us. So we're going to do that and we want to have a live show where we can have. We talked about the differences of maybe what it's like in New York as opponents to Finland or in the uk. So we can have sort of people talking about their experiences, how these things are the same, how it's different within your environment as well in real time. So that's a brilliant thing I'm really looking forward to do. But just. But just to round off now now from that sort of character strength, understanding, just give us some highlights and overview of. Of what some of those things are and how that's made a difference in your experience in terms of your teaching and. And people that you. You've worked with as sort of a global understanding. Because then I think people will go, all right, now I want to see more about all of these different elements and as they hear them individually, I think it will really sort of hit home in a really powerful.

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:39:41

Yeah. In those mini podcasts I'm thinking about, Mark, that we could explore the different character strengths and how might we be able to really develop those further in our own lives, but especially how can we support our children and young people to kind of like own the strengths and develop those further and grow those throughout their studies, but also outside the school? So that's Something that I'm very excited about. And Mark, we have a lot of like studies and we have some Nobel prize winners talking about these so called non cognitive skills such as perseverance and self regulation that really, although how do you say, are more important for the academic excellence than the more academic skills so meaning perseverance and self regulation. So I think that's part of our work that I'm very excited about. So we can look at why this is important at school and beyond. How can we be able to teach and make sure that the environment does support these skills to be able to grow. And then thirdly, why, why this is important and especially around the children, young people, how can we make sure that we really give them opportunities to grow? And especially Mark, since I come from the field of special needs teaching and I've been kind of like supporting so many young people that really struggle at school because adults are or seeing them through the negative lenses and especially the children who need most positive feedback about their character strengths are often the ones who receive it the least. So in that sense I think we can also tie everything up to how can we make sure that all students feel that these teachers are here for me, they are helping me and I'm able to receive the feedback that I need for my own personal growth that I trust myself, my skills and I'm able to succeed at schoolwork to because somebody saw the good in me and they saw my perseverance. Oh, this is me, this is the way I'm having curiosity or I'm able to really grow my bravery for example. So let's try to look at the strengths from the lenses of the pedagogical knowledge we are having from concrete ways. But then again referring to the science, how does this sound to you Mark? Is this a good idea?

Mark Taylor 00:41:59

Yeah, it sounds really good and I think when I've spoken, sort of thought about the whole sort of. It's important that the school has great academic results. Some of the best schools I've seen, they don't worry about the academic results per se. They actually provide an education that supports the whole child. There's loads of sport, there's loads of music, there's loads of arts, but it's all.

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:42:21

Yeah, that's, that's me.

Mark Taylor 00:42:22

Yeah. And, and it's already embedded. And of course because children are happy because they're being seen in all their different sort of facets, they get the best academic results as well. But of course if it's already embedded in the school then that's brilliant. But if you're in a school where that's not the case, and there are many schools where that's not the case because the curriculum has been narrowed, it takes time to build all that up. And it also takes people with a great idea of what that vision would look like to be able to do that. And it's very hard to say, great, okay, we think this will work. Let's build a whole new music program, let's build a whole new arts program. That's a big thing to be able to, to do. What I love about what we're talking about is I'm, I'm not saying don't do that because I think every school should be like that. But actually what we're able to say is through the character, strengths and the things that we're going to be discussing, you can implement that straight away. That's something that's going to really work in the here and now for every child where they are on their journey. And as an educational leader, you can bring in all those other elements into your school which you know are important. But it's not going to be a 10 year plan. We're talking about something you can start doing in the immediate here and now and make a difference. And I love the fact that that's something which we can be really excited about. And so, yeah, I think it's going to be a brilliant thing.

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:43:39

Yeah, I love it. And I think I wrote one thing down I want to read here. So with positive education and this approach from Finland called See the Good, I don't mean that everything is all the time wonderful and exciting, but I wrote this so it means holding two throats at the same time. This might be difficult for you and for me and for us. And we have, you have these beautiful strengths that can help you and us to move forward. So with this approach in schools, we don't avoid problems. We use strengths and these amazing opportunities to build these positive relationships to really approach the problems we might face. And so we have more resources, we have more compassion, and we have more understanding on how to move forward despite the difficulties. And Mark, you've been on my session at the whole education conference. I always start with this question, what is wrong with you? Or what is wrong with you or what is working despite the difficulties you are facing? So when we change the question, we change the person we interact with. And I think this is something that we all need in our everyday lives. And when somebody is looking at me with the eyes, you're having, Mark, and the way you were meeting me at the whole education conference. I feel much better about myself even having a difficult day. But when somebody is meeting me the halfway, being curious about me and showing me kindness and love, I'm changing already and I'm kind of like more relaxed, relaxed. There's less stress and my heart is opening up. And we are having this positive and strong connection. And with that we can do so many things.

Mark Taylor 00:45:27

And I think everyone listening can understand that. It's something we've all experienced. No matter what subject we're teaching, what year group we're teaching, whatever it happens to be like we say, it's the human to human connection. So make sure you're subscribed, you're following whatever platform you're doing, make sure because then you won't miss out. Because we're gonna, we're gonna sort of mix things up a little bit because we're not going to do this sort of one episode a week. We're going to do like a little mini series. We'll, we'll give it to you in a slightly different way. All of which I will explain as, as we go through. So yeah, this isn't a listen to this podcast and next week we'll do something different. This is kind of an ongoing kind of theme that will, will bring through. So yeah, make sure you're subscribed, that you're following that you've got everything because then that way you won't miss any of the updates on and any of the things that start to come, come through. Now we're going to wrap up with obviously our acronym and we've talked about so many of these things and I think we've demonstrated them already. But obviously feedback, inspiration, resilience and empowerment. Is part of our fire, part of education on fire. Is there one word particularly that screams at you? Is it a combination? How does that work?

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:46:34

So thanks, Mark. This is great. I would pick the resilience. And in Finland we have another acronym for resilience or other word. It's called sisu. SISU meaning perseverance. It's similar to resilience. And I think it's something that everybody needs to understand our own resources. But I want to highlight that, for example, SISU and resilience, they are always collective resources. So when we are alone, we may feel that I'm lost, I don't have any resources, I can't bounce back, this is hopeless situation. But then again, when I meet Mark, when I'm with other people, when I come together and we build this, we so Then we have more resources, then we can be resilient and we can have this Finnish sisu taking place in everything we do. So I really love resilience and sisu and I think that this is something that's really kind of like I feel passionate about it and it's something also as I refer to this we, it's collective thing.

Mark Taylor 00:47:39

Well, I think that's such a brilliant way to kind of wrap up everything that we've been talking about and I'm really looking forward about all the things we've got planned. Thank you so much for, for sharing all of this today and giving us a real kind of insight into what that looks like. I love the serendipity of like say, meeting somewhere, which is completely unlikely to, to bring us anything good in the world and yet it's going to give us so much, which is fantastic. So, yeah, yeah. Thank you so much indeed. For those people who want to find out more now, where would you like people to go and learn more about you? What's the website? What's the name of the book?

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:48:14

May I highlight one thing, Mark, as we are ending the conversation? When I was in England and I was having my workshops taking place at the whole education conference and you know, within my see the good programming, we have joy while learning and we were dancing and you were playing part of that dancing, Mark. So part of our programming is to bring joy to the classrooms and many, many, many participants from England come to me and they say, kaisa, you took me out of my comfort zone and I love it. So basically, if you want to meet me, please join our community of see the good teachers and other community members. Find our dances, our programming, many of them are free resources and let's make something beautiful happening inside your schools as and I'm really looking forward to making strong connections to England, to UK and can't wait to hear more of you and go to SeeTheGood app and call me, email me. Let's work together.

Mark Taylor 00:49:14

Amazing. Thank you so much indeed for today and looking forward to everything that we've got planned coming up. And yeah, let's keep that ripple effect going.

Kaisa Vuorinen 00:49:23

Yes, thank you, Mark.