At the heart of education is connection

Speaker A 00:00:22

We believe that everyone who talks to kids at school is an educator.

Speaker A 00:00:25

So that includes our bus drivers, the folks who are in our cafeteria, the folks who are keeping our schools clean, the head secretary.

Speaker A 00:00:32

All of those folks are educators.

Speaker A 00:00:36

I think the biggest lessons that I learned from students in special education was really around the fact that all behavior is communication.

Speaker A 00:00:45

They're trying to tell us something, and this is the best way they know how to communicate and really helped to teach me that we as educators have to separate out a student's behavior from who they are.

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A behavior is just a choice they made in one moment on one day.

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It is not who they are.

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And they can do it differently the next time and differently the next time.

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And we're going to work together to build those skills.

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And I care about you no matter what.

Speaker A 00:01:15

And she sits down with me for this writing conference, and she looks at me straight in the eyes and she says, erica, you are a writer.

Speaker A 00:01:27

And this transitioned everything for me.

Speaker A 00:01:31

But that's the power that an educator has to really shift the trajectory of a student's educational experience and oftentimes, you know, their whole future.

Speaker B 00:01:42

Hello, my name is Mark Taylor, and welcome to the Education on Far podcast, the place for creative and inspiring learning from around the world.

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Listen to teachers, parents, and mentors share how they are supporting children to live their best, authentic life and are proving to be a guiding light to us all.

Speaker B 00:02:04

Hello, Erica and Tiffany, thank you so much for joining us here on the Education on Far podcast.

Speaker B 00:02:09

It's really great to chat to people from the other side of the pond.

Speaker B 00:02:13

I know that the education system in the US and the UK has a lot in common and some things which I'm sure we'll get into in terms of trying to make those work the best that we can.

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But the common element of that, of course, is the students and the people that we're speaking about.

Speaker B 00:02:25

And also great to have two people to chat to, because this conversation is much greater when we've got more people involved.

Speaker B 00:02:31

We often have lots of people on our live streams, but not necessarily two on the podcast often.

Speaker B 00:02:34

So, yeah, thanks for being here and really looking forward to this.

Speaker A 00:02:38

Absolutely thrilled to be here.

Speaker A 00:02:39

Thanks so much for having us.

Speaker B 00:02:42

So, Erica, why don't you start us off in terms of what it is that you're doing?

Speaker B 00:02:47

Connection through conversations, that kind of whole idea of what's important, why is it important, and how did it sort of come about?

Speaker A 00:02:56

Yeah.

Speaker A 00:02:57

So Tiffany and I really believe that at the very heart of education is connection.

Speaker A 00:03:02

And so when we started Collaborating together on this project, we really wanted to dig into what is both the art and the science to build these connected relationships so that students can learn from us.

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So we call that connected relationships for learning.

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And we really wanted to provide something for very busy educators, because I have not met an educator that isn't super, super busy doing the important work.

Speaker A 00:03:26

So we wanted it to be a really simple playbook where folks could get just a little bit of theory and then the step by step, here's how we actually have these conversations with kids.

Speaker A 00:03:37

These are the different moves that we can make to respond when maybe their behavior isn't what we're hoping for at school.

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And here's some different tips and tricks to respond to.

Speaker A 00:03:47

Bring the student around to where we want them to be and really using and leveraging those strong connections so that we can be happy at work and the students are learning and thriving as well.

Speaker B 00:03:58

And I think, for me, understanding that this is a relationship, isn't it?

Speaker B 00:04:02

You know, there are teachers and there are pupils, but actually we're learning together.

Speaker B 00:04:05

We're in an environment together where we actually want to create the, like, say, the best relationships, the best situation where the students feel like they can actually get the most out of their learning, the most out of their education.

Speaker B 00:04:17

And I think when there's a real conversation going on with respect to the different sort of dynamics that that's going to be, it's gonna.

Speaker B 00:04:23

It's gonna make a big difference.

Speaker B 00:04:24

So why don't you tell me, Tiffany, what was it like in terms of being able to think about this, you know, set it up as an.

Speaker B 00:04:33

As an organization, so to speak.

Speaker B 00:04:35

But then actually, oh, we're actually going to put this down on paper and actually create it into a book.

Speaker C 00:04:40

Yeah, well, it was a long time coming, I would say, that process.

Speaker C 00:04:45

Eric and I met.

Speaker C 00:04:46

We've both been in education for over 20 years.

Speaker C 00:04:48

We met in our admin program together about 14 years ago.

Speaker C 00:04:55

And during that, we realized we just spent a lot of time doing writing, and it was just a phenomenal program.

Speaker C 00:05:01

And during that, we realized that we really enjoyed writing together.

Speaker C 00:05:05

And so then we said, well, someday we'll write a book together.

Speaker C 00:05:09

And then fast forward 12 years, and we did.

Speaker C 00:05:14

And really the idea behind writing this book is just like Erica said, how do we really find that connection with our students?

Speaker C 00:05:23

And how do we really build that?

Speaker C 00:05:25

So part of what we really thought about, we've both been school administrators for 13 years, and we really were thinking of, what are some of those tips and tricks and Things that we're finding ourselves really frequently coaching staff on of how to really build those connection with students.

Speaker C 00:05:41

So those ideas around how to avoid power struggle, how to really think about eye contact, how to position your body in a way that's going to build the best type of communication and connection, and how do we communicate and talk with kids in a way that's going to really help create these kind of trusted environments?

Speaker C 00:06:03

And what we realized is that that doesn't happen by accident.

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It turns out that we have to be really, really intentional.

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And we talk a lot about there's.

Speaker C 00:06:12

There's an art and a science to teaching.

Speaker C 00:06:14

And if you are someone who's really good at building relationships with students, then you kind of just do it.

Speaker C 00:06:20

You know what to do.

Speaker C 00:06:21

You show up and you just interact.

Speaker C 00:06:23

And then if you're trying to explain that to someone, that's a tricky thing to do.

Speaker C 00:06:29

Additionally, if we have students that we meet who are, you know, who challenge us in different ways or who we don't really have that easy connection with, what do we do in those situations?

Speaker C 00:06:41

And so Eric and I really got.

Speaker C 00:06:43

We kind of got nerdy and really looking at what's the science behind that and why does this work?

Speaker C 00:06:49

And then how can I give someone step by step directions to really build that connection?

Speaker B 00:06:58

So I guess that's the key, isn't it?

Speaker B 00:07:00

Because I guess either end of that spectrum that you said, you know, I'm completely natural, I just do it.

Speaker B 00:07:05

And then how does that work in terms of practicalness?

Speaker B 00:07:07

If I was going to be explaining it as people who like to say, suddenly find themselves where they're not able to connect and so.

Speaker B 00:07:13

And you might be anywhere in between.

Speaker B 00:07:15

So I guess the idea of a playbook, and is it that you can kind of, you have to read it sort of COVID to cover to find the whole solution with all the research, like you said, or is it more that you can dip in and out of it and come up with tricks and ideas and things that are going to help?

Speaker B 00:07:30

So, yeah, Erica, tell us about that.

Speaker A 00:07:34

Yeah, so we were really intentional to build it as a playbook.

Speaker A 00:07:37

So we love it when people read it cover to cover.

Speaker A 00:07:40

You'll get all of the great information in that way, but you can also go and look down and say, ooh, I really want to understand how to use, acknowledge, validate, coach.

Speaker A 00:07:48

So I'm going to go straight to that section.

Speaker A 00:07:50

Or maybe you read it cover to cover.

Speaker A 00:07:52

And now you're supporting a student who is denying the behavior.

Speaker A 00:07:57

And you remember there was a section in there about when a student denies and so you can jump straight to that section.

Speaker A 00:08:01

So we really wrote it in such a way that you can read it from COVID to cover or you can just scan the table of contents, find the exact tool that you need and jump right there.

Speaker A 00:08:10

So we really meant mean for it to be that resource that you pull off your bookshelf again and again.

Speaker A 00:08:16

It's a very quick read.

Speaker A 00:08:18

Folks tell us that they get through it in an afternoon on a Saturday and it's a really easy, quick to get through, but then something that folks go back to again and again.

Speaker B 00:08:30

And I think the time management thing is important, isn't it?

Speaker B 00:08:33

I mean teachers are so time poor so often, but to kind of one know that you can fit it in with your schedule generally, but also that you're going to get something out of it which is in the short term, let alone the long term, is going to really help you as you sort of go forward from there.

Speaker B 00:08:47

Tiffany, I'm interested because I know specifically you've had the opportunity and the chance to teach across different age groups and different types of schools.

Speaker B 00:08:56

How does that work in terms of how you would adapt the things that you're talking about in the book?

Speaker B 00:09:01

Or is it the same, just a different inflection based on the age of the children?

Speaker C 00:09:07

Yeah, what we found is that the strategies are surprisingly similar all across the age groups and even into talking and working with adults.

Speaker C 00:09:15

It's just the language is going to shift slightly.

Speaker C 00:09:18

So when we're talking to younger students, we're going to use more age appropriate words for them or we're going to use different ways in which we communicate.

Speaker C 00:09:27

But the strategies themselves we found are really, really the same.

Speaker C 00:09:31

And what Eric and I really dug into again with looking at what makes a strong relationship.

Speaker C 00:09:36

And we say a lot, you know, if you've been in education for five minutes, you hear that relationships are important.

Speaker C 00:09:42

So you know that like we hear that all the time and yet we haven't really spent a lot of time talking about what makes a really strong relationship.

Speaker C 00:09:51

And so we've looked at there's three real components that we believe are necessary for a strong relations or we call it a connected relationship for learning.

Speaker C 00:10:00

And that's listening, dignity and trust.

Speaker C 00:10:04

And that transcends all ages that, you know, we're talking about that when we're communicating with adults.

Speaker C 00:10:11

Basically anybody that's verbal, well, even non verbal, I guess, absolutely.

Speaker C 00:10:16

But just, you know, yeah, the strategies really are the same.

Speaker C 00:10:20

We, in our book, we use A number of different examples to say, here's what this looks like for younger students, here's how you would say this for older students to help with that translation.

Speaker C 00:10:30

But yeah, it's pretty much the same.

Speaker B 00:10:33

And I guess the thing is as well, isn't it, it depends on where you are in the world, let alone even in your state from a US Example, because the, the dialects are slightly different, the kind of, the culture slightly different.

Speaker B 00:10:44

And so how you're going to do that, you're going to use those skill, key skills, I guess, that you have as an individual and your sort of natural relationship then with like say that kind of pointed understanding of, of what you're trying to do and then, and then why you're, why you're trying to do it.

Speaker B 00:11:01

Take us into this sort of sense of what it is that you then went to the next stage in terms of then having a course as well.

Speaker B 00:11:09

Does it relate to the book?

Speaker B 00:11:10

Is it separate from the book and how does that work?

Speaker B 00:11:13

So, Erica, why don't you take us into that one?

Speaker A 00:11:17

Yeah, so as we were, you know, we travel all over talking about the important work that we share in the book.

Speaker A 00:11:23

And what we would often hear, usually from school administrators is I want every single person in my school to get this information.

Speaker A 00:11:31

And we were intentional about writing this book for everybody who talks to kids at school.

Speaker A 00:11:36

We believe that everyone who talks to kids at school is an educator.

Speaker A 00:11:40

So that includes our bus drivers, the folks who are in our cafeteria, the folks who are keeping our schools clean, the head secretary, all of those folks are educators.

Speaker A 00:11:50

And it's very challenging to be able to gather all educators in a space for a period of time to go and do professional development together.

Speaker A 00:12:00

So they were asking us, is there a way that you could do this in short little snippets via video so that everyone could participate, Everyone could get the information in a way that could be broken up a little bit more distinctly, especially for those folks who they couldn't capture in a staff meeting or for a professional development day.

Speaker A 00:12:18

So we did that.

Speaker A 00:12:19

We went ahead and developed a course and it's a series of short videos.

Speaker A 00:12:24

They're, you know, five to 10 minutes long and you can go through them self paced.

Speaker A 00:12:29

There's a guide.

Speaker A 00:12:31

We really encourage schools to do it together.

Speaker A 00:12:33

So you could come together in a staff meeting and go through that guide, or you could work through that independently, either way.

Speaker A 00:12:40

But it's, it is the same content from the book, but it's explained from us with different examples and some digging in A little bit more to what it actually looks like and sounds like, because.

Speaker A 00:12:50

Because we're able to talk a little bit more clearly in the video.

Speaker A 00:12:54

So, yeah, it's a.

Speaker A 00:12:55

It's a great resource for schools.

Speaker B 00:12:57

Fantastic.

Speaker B 00:12:58

And, Tiffany, take me into the difference between writing the book when you're sort of talking about these sort of more long form.

Speaker B 00:13:05

And obviously, like I said, you had the passion and the connection between the two of you to be able to do that different than sticking the camera on and being able to do it in a different way.

Speaker B 00:13:13

So take me through that process.

Speaker B 00:13:15

Was it natural?

Speaker B 00:13:16

Was it something you enjoyed?

Speaker B 00:13:17

Was it something you had to work on?

Speaker B 00:13:20

How was that?

Speaker B 00:13:21

It sounds like there's a story there already.

Speaker C 00:13:26

No, it was not natural.

Speaker C 00:13:29

Perfectly honest.

Speaker C 00:13:30

No, it wasn't.

Speaker C 00:13:31

You know, we were really comfortable.

Speaker C 00:13:33

We do professional development all this time, so we travel all around the country and we work with schools, we work with districts, we do, you know, webinars there.

Speaker C 00:13:41

We're doing that, getting up in front of people and talking a lot.

Speaker C 00:13:45

And so that part is really comfortable.

Speaker C 00:13:47

Doing that professional development and having that connection with the people in the audience is so helpful.

Speaker C 00:13:53

We're teachers, you know, so.

Speaker C 00:13:54

So that is.

Speaker C 00:13:55

That is something that I think comes naturally to us.

Speaker C 00:13:58

Getting on a screen, recording videos is.

Speaker C 00:14:02

I will just speak for myself.

Speaker C 00:14:04

Not something that I was incredibly comfortable with.

Speaker C 00:14:08

But once we started doing it, it was just like, okay, I'm just gonna pretend that there's a big audience.

Speaker C 00:14:13

And it.

Speaker C 00:14:14

At the very beginning, actually, the.

Speaker C 00:14:16

The folks who were recording us, they're just awesome.

Speaker C 00:14:19

Actually, it's my cousin's company.

Speaker C 00:14:21

She lives in Chicago.

Speaker C 00:14:24

They were turning their videos off while we were talking, and we were like, you've got to turn those videos on.

Speaker C 00:14:30

We need to see you laughing.

Speaker C 00:14:31

Like you need to nod.

Speaker C 00:14:32

We can't just do this talking to ourselves.

Speaker C 00:14:35

So that made it a lot easier.

Speaker C 00:14:37

And, you know, I think we.

Speaker C 00:14:38

We warmed up a little at the beginning, and then we got a lot more comfortable.

Speaker B 00:14:43

I love that.

Speaker B 00:14:44

And it's.

Speaker B 00:14:44

It's interesting.

Speaker B 00:14:45

I mean, even this podcast, it started back in 2016.

Speaker B 00:14:48

It was literally me and Skype and a call recorder.

Speaker B 00:14:51

So the only video that was to begin with was literally just to say hello and kind of wave at the beginning.

Speaker B 00:14:56

And then the bandwidth wasn't enough, so you'd have to then turn it off.

Speaker B 00:14:59

You know, Fast forward nearly 10 years and the world's a different place.

Speaker B 00:15:02

But like I say, it's something you grow into and something you get easier.

Speaker B 00:15:06

Easier.

Speaker B 00:15:07

But I think also like you say, if it's your passion, if it's your content, you're used to delivering something in the other way, knowing that what you're delivering is going to help people kind of take some of that sort of negativity away, I think, doesn't it?

Speaker B 00:15:18

And you can sort of push through and.

Speaker B 00:15:20

And you start to find your.

Speaker B 00:15:21

Find your feet as you do it.

Speaker B 00:15:23

Erica, why don't you talk to us a little bit about your professional background?

Speaker B 00:15:27

Where did all this sort of insight and passion come from, from your standpoint?

Speaker A 00:15:33

Yeah.

Speaker A 00:15:33

So I started as a special education teacher.

Speaker A 00:15:37

So I supported students with various exceptionalities and worked with the middle school, and it was an awesome age group.

Speaker A 00:15:45

One of my favorite jobs of all time.

Speaker A 00:15:47

But every time I'm in a job, it's my favorite.

Speaker A 00:15:49

But I really, really enjoyed supporting students in special education.

Speaker A 00:15:53

And so that's really where I started.

Speaker A 00:15:55

Spent all of my teaching career supporting students who had various challenges in school and ended up doing a couple of different things.

Speaker A 00:16:04

Supporting students all the way K through transition age, so preschool, all the way through age 21, and enjoyed every minute of it, and then transitioned into administration.

Speaker A 00:16:16

I was a high school assistant principal and then principal, and then spent a wonderful minute as an elementary principal, which I absolutely loved.

Speaker A 00:16:26

And then assistant superintendent, oversaw student services, counseling, behavioral health, and now this.

Speaker A 00:16:33

I am the superintendent of a lovely district over here in Oregon.

Speaker A 00:16:37

Yeah.

Speaker A 00:16:37

So that's the mini version.

Speaker B 00:16:39

Fantastic.

Speaker B 00:16:40

And just take me into that kind of like, say, having to work with different types of students, because I guess, you know, you're here talking about how you make those connections through the book and everything, but that changes depending on who you're speaking to, as we said, in sort of general terms.

Speaker B 00:16:54

But can you talk us through sort of specifically that for children that have those sort of special or educational needs?

Speaker A 00:17:01

Yeah.

Speaker A 00:17:02

You know, I think Tiffany said in the very beginning, for those of us for whom relationships come really naturally, we just kind of do it.

Speaker A 00:17:09

And yet every student teaches us something different.

Speaker A 00:17:12

And so when I'm supporting students who have various exceptionalities, the way you're going to approach that relationship, the way that you're going to approach the words that I'm choosing and the physical stance that I'm choosing, and the approach that I'm going to take is going to depend based on what I'm learning and the feedback I'm getting from that student.

Speaker A 00:17:32

And so I connect very easily with kids, but there have been kids that have been harder than others.

Speaker A 00:17:39

Right.

Speaker A 00:17:39

And so being able to dig into.

Speaker A 00:17:41

Okay, what is the specific piece that is missing?

Speaker A 00:17:44

Because, again, those three components transcend.

Speaker A 00:17:47

It doesn't matter what human you're talking to.

Speaker A 00:17:50

There needs to be the ability to listen well, a foundation of trust, and then everyone needs to be treated with dignity.

Speaker A 00:17:57

I think the biggest lessons that I learned from students in special education was really around the fact that all behavior is communication.

Speaker A 00:18:07

They're trying to tell us something, and this is the best way they know how to communicate.

Speaker A 00:18:12

And really helped to teach me that we as educators have to separate out a student's behavior from who they are.

Speaker A 00:18:21

A student's behavior is what they did.

Speaker A 00:18:23

It's not who they are.

Speaker A 00:18:24

And so separating that out for us as educators so that we can maybe take it a little bit less personally.

Speaker A 00:18:31

We know we're not supposed to take student behavior personally, but we are people, and that is hard.

Speaker A 00:18:36

And it also is such a more hopeful place to be.

Speaker A 00:18:39

We are teachers.

Speaker A 00:18:40

If they're just trying to communicate with us and we can teach them the skills to communicate with us differently, that's very helpful.

Speaker A 00:18:47

Place to be, then we have a place we can go.

Speaker A 00:18:49

We're going to be able to get the student where they want to be and where we want them to go.

Speaker A 00:18:54

It's even more critical for the student.

Speaker A 00:18:56

And so when I was supporting all students, but in particular those students who were in special education, helping them see that a behavior is just a choice they made in one moment on one day, it is not who they are, and they can do it differently the next time and differently the next time.

Speaker A 00:19:12

And we're going to work together to build those skills.

Speaker A 00:19:14

And I care about you no matter what, and then really being able to dig into that and help them see that they are, you know, a wonderful person, and we're gonna be able to figure this out and work together through it, that allows them to get out of kind of a place of shame or a place where they just see themselves as, you know, I'm a bad kid, so I'm gonna do bad things and really shift that mindset.

Speaker A 00:19:39

So those pieces around behavior were really the biggest learning that I got supporting those students.

Speaker A 00:19:45

And again, the basic foundation has transcended, transcended from when I was, you know, 22, starting out in the classroom, you need to be able to listen well.

Speaker A 00:19:55

You need to have a foundation of trust, and you need to treat everyone with dignity.

Speaker A 00:19:59

So really digging into the step by steps, what does that look like?

Speaker A 00:20:03

How do I do that in a way that that works for kids?

Speaker A 00:20:05

So, yeah, learned a tremendous lesson.

Speaker A 00:20:07

I Still consider myself a special educator.

Speaker B 00:20:10

I love that because it makes so much sense.

Speaker B 00:20:13

And I think, you know, the heart of what we're talking about here is relationships and environment in terms of helping everybody.

Speaker B 00:20:19

And I think that continual convers about the fact this is about me and you, not about this behavior, it's not just about this moment, it's bigger than that I think is really, really special.

Speaker B 00:20:28

And the thing that just struck me, I don't know why it came into my mind like that, was this sense of having an island.

Speaker B 00:20:33

And, and you kind of mentioned about the key foundations.

Speaker B 00:20:36

The component of what you're trying to get across is the same for everybody.

Speaker B 00:20:39

It's almost like as an educator you can retreat onto that island, know what it is that you're about while you're doing it, and then you can reach out, I don't know, boat or wherever.

Speaker B 00:20:47

It's the next child that you're meeting, the next place that you're going.

Speaker B 00:20:50

But you can always come back and get that sense of no, what I'm trying to do, I might need to look in different ways, have a different conversation, do it in a different way.

Speaker B 00:20:58

But I know that at the heart of what I'm doing is sort of almost like a safe place for me or a place that I know is going to be helpful and supportive.

Speaker B 00:21:05

Yeah.

Speaker B 00:21:05

So thanks for sharing that.

Speaker B 00:21:06

It's really, really fascinating.

Speaker B 00:21:08

Tiffany, take us in, into your, your experience in sort of that journey through.

Speaker C 00:21:15

So I've been in education for over 20 years.

Speaker C 00:21:18

I taught elementary, middle school, high school.

Speaker C 00:21:21

I'm now teaching university.

Speaker C 00:21:23

I've worked in Oregon, which I, where I live now, Alaska and then also Mexico.

Speaker C 00:21:28

I've taught in public, private, bilingual, homeschool.

Speaker C 00:21:33

I'm forgetting some, all kinds of different settings.

Speaker C 00:21:37

And then I've been a school administrator.

Speaker C 00:21:39

I started as a school administrator in 2012 and I worked as a K8 principal, a middle school assistant principal.

Speaker C 00:21:47

And then I was the principal of a wonderful elementary school for nine years.

Speaker C 00:21:53

And then this year I took a professional sabbatical.

Speaker C 00:21:56

Erica and I, like I said, we wrote the book and we've been traveling all over and it turns out it's really hard to be a principal remotely.

Speaker C 00:22:03

So I took a sabbatical this year and I'm teaching pre service teachers at the university here in Oregon, in Southern Oregon.

Speaker C 00:22:13

And it is, oh, I just adore it.

Speaker C 00:22:16

It's just so fun.

Speaker C 00:22:17

And like Erica said, you know, every job she's had is her favorite.

Speaker C 00:22:20

Well, every grade I teach, that's my favorite.

Speaker C 00:22:22

And My husband will laugh because he's like, I thought ninth grade was your favorite.

Speaker C 00:22:26

And I'm like, I don't know, like seventh grade's pretty fantastic.

Speaker C 00:22:29

So it doesn't, you know, and right now that's how I'm feeling about university.

Speaker C 00:22:33

I knew I'd like it, I didn't know how much.

Speaker C 00:22:36

I just absolutely love it.

Speaker C 00:22:38

I just, I really love working with students.

Speaker C 00:22:41

I love kids.

Speaker C 00:22:42

I think they're the coolest people on the planet.

Speaker C 00:22:44

They just light me up.

Speaker C 00:22:46

And it turns out I really enjoy supporting the grown ups and the educators who support kids.

Speaker C 00:22:53

So they're just, you know, educators are my people.

Speaker B 00:22:58

And I think as well, like you say, that ability over experience in time makes a difference, doesn't it?

Speaker B 00:23:04

Because when you're first out, there's a certain way of being and the experience that you're gaining and trying to sort of gain for yourself to be able to share with the children.

Speaker B 00:23:11

But then like say 20 years, years or so in, I think that sense of wanting to give back and sharing with other educators who are just starting out or less experienced becomes a really, a really important thing.

Speaker B 00:23:22

And I can certainly identify with that.

Speaker B 00:23:24

And the other thing that really struck me was like you said about having your favorite age group, I'm, I'm a musician, so I get to perform all over the place.

Speaker B 00:23:30

But I also teach in a couple of schools, drums and percussion, which is my speciality.

Speaker B 00:23:35

But I teach across all ages, so some of them as young as sort of six or seven, all the way up through to sort of 18.

Speaker B 00:23:42

And so I get to sort of do those different age groups on like kind of a weekly basis.

Speaker B 00:23:46

And like I say, some weeks it's that kind of, you really get something out of some, someone who's really young because there's something about what they said that kind of really sort of hits you in a way that you can't quite explain.

Speaker B 00:23:57

And then the next week it might be someone who's older because there's a certain older relationship and conversation that you had that hits you.

Speaker B 00:24:03

So to be able to sort of have that on a weekly basis I find fascinating.

Speaker B 00:24:07

But I can really identify with like you say whatever you're doing in that moment is often the thing that kind of sort of you sort of take to heart in a way that sort of may be harder to explain to someone like say, who's got a more traditional job working with the same people all the time.

Speaker B 00:24:23

So let's talk about your sort of own personal experiences from when you were younger.

Speaker B 00:24:28

Is There a teacher, Is there an education experience that you found supportive?

Speaker B 00:24:33

And also maybe did that tie in in any way to sort of how you became a teacher and what you've been sort of providing recently?

Speaker B 00:24:40

So, Erica, why don't you take us in to that one?

Speaker A 00:24:43

Sure.

Speaker A 00:24:44

So, you know, when you ask that question, the first name that comes up for me is my third grade teacher.

Speaker A 00:24:51

Her name was Mrs. Papke.

Speaker A 00:24:53

And we talk a lot about the fact that the words of an educator can stay with a student for the rest of their life.

Speaker A 00:24:59

And that's really what happened for me in third grade.

Speaker A 00:25:04

I was, and still am.

Speaker A 00:25:06

I really struggle with spelling.

Speaker A 00:25:08

Spelling is something that is really, really hard for me.

Speaker A 00:25:11

And back when, back in this time in school in the US There was like, a spelling test every Friday.

Speaker A 00:25:17

And that's really how you judged whether or not you were a good writer was whether or not you could do the spelling test and then your penmanship.

Speaker A 00:25:24

That was another important judge.

Speaker A 00:25:26

And I have very poor penmanship.

Speaker A 00:25:28

So spelling and penmanship both struggles for me.

Speaker A 00:25:31

And so by the time I got to third grade, I really didn't believe I was a very good writer.

Speaker A 00:25:36

I was kind of like, I can't write.

Speaker A 00:25:37

That's too hard for me.

Speaker A 00:25:38

I'm not good at.

Speaker A 00:25:40

And Mrs. Papke had us working on this.

Speaker A 00:25:43

She was having us write, like, a whole story.

Speaker A 00:25:46

We were writing a whole book, and we were going to publish it, and it was this huge deal.

Speaker A 00:25:50

And in my head, I'm like, this is.

Speaker A 00:25:52

I'm not going to be able to do this.

Speaker A 00:25:53

This is too hard.

Speaker A 00:25:55

I'm not a good writer.

Speaker A 00:25:56

Right.

Speaker A 00:25:56

And so I didn't think I could do it, but I dug in anyway, and I'm struggling away with it.

Speaker A 00:26:03

And she sits down with me for this writing conference, and she looks at me straight in the eyes, and she says, erica, you are a writer.

Speaker A 00:26:14

And this transitioned everything for me from that moment forward.

Speaker A 00:26:19

I'm like, oh, I can write.

Speaker A 00:26:21

I can't spell very well.

Speaker A 00:26:22

Penmanship is hard.

Speaker A 00:26:23

But thank goodness, computers came quickly after that.

Speaker A 00:26:26

And so I was able to really see myself different.

Speaker A 00:26:29

Lee is a learner, really dug in, Started like, that's where my passion became, grew.

Speaker A 00:26:35

And so I started reading a ton, writing a ton.

Speaker A 00:26:38

And of course, now I'm a published author.

Speaker A 00:26:41

And I still look back on that and see it as a pivotal moment in my education and kind of where I transitioned and just how critical the words of an educator can be.

Speaker A 00:26:54

And here's the truth.

Speaker A 00:26:56

It is likely she said that to Every student she talked to.

Speaker A 00:27:00

Right.

Speaker A 00:27:01

You know, and she doesn't remember.

Speaker A 00:27:03

She doesn't remember sitting down with me and saying that I was a writer.

Speaker A 00:27:07

But that's the power that an educator has to really shift the trajectory of a student's educational experience and oftentimes, you know, their whole future.

Speaker A 00:27:16

So super grateful to her.

Speaker A 00:27:18

She's a phenomenal teacher.

Speaker A 00:27:20

And think about her often.

Speaker B 00:27:23

I love that.

Speaker B 00:27:24

And like you say, it's about.

Speaker B 00:27:26

I think sometimes you can be paralyzed by these things because I certainly had that sense of I need to say the right thing to the right people at the right time.

Speaker B 00:27:33

But like you say, I think generally as an educator, you know, the overall.

Speaker B 00:27:37

The overarching kind of things which you want to say to every child.

Speaker B 00:27:41

But I think also there's something about.

Speaker B 00:27:43

I'm just going to say this now because it feels right to me with my professional hat on, with my personal hat on, with, like you say, the foundations of everything that we're sort of talking about today.

Speaker B 00:27:53

And I think if you sort of sit back and you take that in.

Speaker B 00:27:56

In the best possible way, you're going to say the right thing to the right child anyway, because they're.

Speaker B 00:28:00

Whatever it is that you say is going to hit home in a really.

Speaker B 00:28:03

In a really positive way.

Speaker B 00:28:05

And I think.

Speaker B 00:28:05

I think being a bit laissez faire about it, but with that kind of professional frontage, I think is probably a really key thing.

Speaker B 00:28:16

Tiffany, is there a piece of advice that you've been given which has been impactful or even a piece of advice you might give your younger self now?

Speaker B 00:28:23

And I do sl.

Speaker B 00:28:24

Slightly caveat this with the fact that I know that a lot of us when we were younger wouldn't necessarily have taken that advice on board, but I still think it's important that we would have heard it or at least sort of taken it.

Speaker C 00:28:36

Well, it's funny you say that, because it was advice that I got that I didn't take on board, and it was the advice that I would give to myself now.

Speaker C 00:28:44

So it was when I very first started teaching, you know, and we've all been talking about this, how much we care about kids and how dedicated we are and how we want to really, you know, think about ways to really build that connection.

Speaker C 00:28:58

And so when I very first started teaching, that was all I thought about.

Speaker C 00:29:01

You know, I was married, but I wasn't a mom yet.

Speaker C 00:29:05

So so much of my life could just be dedicated to teaching and to my career and I spent in my classroom and my kids, really.

Speaker C 00:29:14

And so I mean, I spent an incredible amount of time planning and thinking about students and really just.

Speaker C 00:29:21

I mean, and it was so much time, super late nights on weekends.

Speaker C 00:29:26

And my partner teacher said to me, you know, Tiffany, this is a job that you can work 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and still not be done.

Speaker C 00:29:35

So you have to decide when you're going to be done because you just won't be done.

Speaker C 00:29:38

And it was a really lovely thing for her to say to me.

Speaker C 00:29:41

And I didn't listen.

Speaker C 00:29:43

And, you know, I went a couple.

Speaker C 00:29:45

I just was like, I don't know how to make that work.

Speaker C 00:29:47

And.

Speaker C 00:29:47

And then a couple years in, it was like, oh, that was really, really excellent advice.

Speaker C 00:29:53

And the way that I had to think about it, personally, for me, because I really believe teachers are helpers.

Speaker C 00:30:01

We're fixers, we're problem solvers, we just want to make things better.

Speaker C 00:30:04

And so for me, I had to think about it, not necessarily in terms of me.

Speaker C 00:30:09

I had to think about it for my students, like my students deserve a Mrs. Burns or Ms. Tiffany that has been rested, you know, that.

Speaker C 00:30:17

That has spent time doing other things that I enjoy.

Speaker C 00:30:20

I have another.

Speaker C 00:30:20

I have a large, full life outside of.

Speaker C 00:30:23

Of only teaching.

Speaker C 00:30:26

And I think that, you know, that would have been really helpful for me to hear earlier.

Speaker C 00:30:30

It's something that I work really intentionally on now.

Speaker C 00:30:33

And, you know, Eric and I have a whole chapter in the book that we talk about this idea that emotions are contagious.

Speaker C 00:30:39

And it's this idea that we all have mirror neurons, and those mirror neurons turn on and match when we see someone else having an emotional experience and they show up in our own bodies.

Speaker C 00:30:51

And what we know is that we are less susceptible to picking up other people's emotions when we in fact, are rested and are taking good care of ourselves.

Speaker C 00:31:01

And when we are able to just really have that.

Speaker C 00:31:07

And we hear it a lot, this idea of work life balance.

Speaker C 00:31:10

I don't know, we hear it a lot here in the States.

Speaker C 00:31:12

This idea of work life balance.

Speaker C 00:31:14

And it's such a buzzword.

Speaker C 00:31:17

And also it's really important that we, that we really spend the time like calendar.

Speaker C 00:31:22

I mean, I. I schedule and calendar out family time, I schedule and calendar out exercise.

Speaker C 00:31:29

You know, just things that are also important to me.

Speaker C 00:31:32

So I make sure to do it.

Speaker B 00:31:34

I think it really is important, like you said.

Speaker B 00:31:36

And I think certainly for me, having children was the first thing that really kind of got that, because it's like I've got this person here that really needs looking after.

Speaker B 00:31:44

So I have to be in position to be able to do that.

Speaker B 00:31:46

So therefore, immediately, like you say, the working 24,7 has to stop because there's something else that goes on.

Speaker B 00:31:52

And then like you say, you also get to the stage where how you are and are able to cope with that because we know young children are quite hard to keep on top of from a tiredness point of view and emotional points of view, let alone working as well.

Speaker B 00:32:06

And, and I like what you said there about sort of the, the work life balance.

Speaker B 00:32:10

I mean, I think for me sometimes, because I've got a multifaceted career in terms of performing and teaching and of podcasting and that kind of thing is that it's also that idea of a work life sort of harmony because it also goes in sprints sometimes.

Speaker B 00:32:23

You know, sometimes it's going to be busy.

Speaker B 00:32:26

There's a concert coming up, there's a lot of planning going on, there's a lot of activity.

Speaker B 00:32:29

But I know post that I like to say I'm going to calendar, I'm going to schedule something in which gives me that time to sort of relax and ebb and flow.

Speaker B 00:32:35

So I try not to make it too big a deal if it doesn't feel like it's in harmony now because I know over the course of the week, month, year or whatever it happens to be, you can kind of sort of pull that in.

Speaker B 00:32:46

And Erica, what's your sort of experience of that as well?

Speaker A 00:32:50

Yeah, no, I, Tiffany said it really well.

Speaker A 00:32:53

I think about it as work life flow, you know, because there are just like you said, there are times that, that have to be busy in, in the States where I am, May and August are the busiest times to be a school administrator.

Speaker A 00:33:06

And so that's where I am right now.

Speaker A 00:33:08

And so recognizing that and planning for that and communicating with my family around that and then making sure that I have really chunked some solid time to take care of myself and also protecting those daily routines that are critical for my own emotional kind of regulation, making sure that I am doing what I do every morning no matter how busy.

Speaker A 00:33:33

I shouldn't have anything scheduled at 5:30 in the morning.

Speaker A 00:33:35

So making sure that I'm really sticking to those routines that are going to help set me up and recognizing that my job is what I do and I'm passionate about it and I care about it and I give it my absolute all while I'm there, and then knowing that my family deserves the same thing.

Speaker A 00:33:55

And so again, it's just a matter of flow and being aware of it and keeping track.

Speaker B 00:34:03

And we also talk about a resource which has had an impact and today we're going to specifically talk about the resources which, which you've created.

Speaker B 00:34:10

So Tiffany, why don't you take us into the book itself, make sure everyone knows the name of it, where they can find it and the course.

Speaker B 00:34:16

And I know you've got a, an offer for people listening as well.

Speaker C 00:34:20

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker C 00:34:21

So our book is called Connecting through Conversation, A playbook for talking with students.

Speaker C 00:34:26

And like Erica mentioned earlier, it's a short, quick read, it's conversational, it's filled with stories of real life experience.

Speaker C 00:34:33

The names have been changed, but all the stories are pretty accurate and things that educators will really note.

Speaker C 00:34:41

What we hear all the time is people are like, you get education, you know exactly what we're dealing with.

Speaker C 00:34:46

And we're like, yes, we do.

Speaker C 00:34:49

That was why we wrote it.

Speaker C 00:34:51

And so it's just filled with all kinds of practical strategies.

Speaker C 00:34:54

There's sentence stem, there's sample scripts, there's all kinds of step by step.

Speaker C 00:35:01

Here's exactly how you do this.

Speaker C 00:35:02

We like to think of it as, you know, a playbook of back pocket strategies that you're just like, oh yep, I'm going to use that right away.

Speaker C 00:35:09

And some of it are really just easy little tweaks about, you know, thinking about how you position your body so that it's not, you know, intimidating to a student.

Speaker C 00:35:18

I mean, just so many little things that we can tweak and then other things.

Speaker C 00:35:22

Some pretty big strategies that are like here, try this when you're really trying to help de escalate a student that's really having a hard time, try these four different strategies and see what works.

Speaker C 00:35:35

So we've got that in the book and like Erica said, we really like that to be a reference for folks.

Speaker C 00:35:41

So we have a very clearly laid out table of contents.

Speaker C 00:35:44

So yes, you can read it cover to cover, but also you can just flip to that table of contents, find the section that you're looking for and go right back back to it.

Speaker C 00:35:52

We've had people come up to us with their book, really, you know, beat up with, you know, different stickies and post it notes and folded down corners of like oh yeah, I actually using this in my back pocket so I'm thankful it fits there.

Speaker C 00:36:06

We also have like Erica mentioned before our, our online course that folks can find on our website.

Speaker C 00:36:12

And for your listeners, Mark, we're offering a $50 off discount code.

Speaker C 00:36:17

So if they just type in CTC podcast.

Speaker C 00:36:19

And I know you said that will all be in the show notes.

Speaker C 00:36:23

They can find that.

Speaker C 00:36:24

Oh, but that's on our website.

Speaker C 00:36:25

Sorry, www.connectingthrough conversation.com and our website has, we do a blog monthly.

Speaker C 00:36:34

We have all kinds of free resources and downloads for folks.

Speaker C 00:36:38

We're just always trying to share information.

Speaker C 00:36:41

So we're, we're on Facebook and all that, we're on all the social media, but really just trying to give information to educators.

Speaker C 00:36:50

It's not an easy job and it's not a job that you can just go into and be good at all the time.

Speaker C 00:36:59

And students are changing and we're changing and society is changing.

Speaker C 00:37:03

And so we have to figure out ways to adapt and cope and navigate that.

Speaker C 00:37:08

And really all the while still holding that idea that at the very heart of education is connection.

Speaker C 00:37:14

And so we just want to provide folks with.

Speaker C 00:37:16

Here are all these strategies that you can use to build connection.

Speaker C 00:37:20

Eric and I are on a mission.

Speaker C 00:37:22

We want to ensure that every single student in every single school feels cared for, loved, and a deep sense of belonging so they're ready to learn.

Speaker C 00:37:31

And we really think that these strategies help that.

Speaker B 00:37:36

I think it's amazing.

Speaker B 00:37:37

And it really sort of speaks to me because this podcast started originally because I was going around lots of schools doing music workshops and I was always seeing at least one teacher in a staff room banging her head against a brick wall, saying, I got into this to make a difference and I'm form filling, checkboxing all the things.

Speaker B 00:37:55

And, and I was just thinking, ah, but I've just been in this school where this amazing thing was happening or this organization was providing something.

Speaker B 00:38:03

And this, you know, this is exactly what we're doing today is the fact that, you know, having somewhere where people can go and hang out with other people, learn some stuff in their own way, feel like they're connected through the conversations in whichever way that happens to be.

Speaker B 00:38:17

And so this is why, this is a fascinating conversation and why I love that people are doing it.

Speaker B 00:38:21

And you can find your tribe and your people that are going to be supportive for you.

Speaker B 00:38:25

So even if you, whether you're feeling isolated in your educational institution or not, there's always more people who are like minded that can help you.

Speaker B 00:38:33

And I think that's always a really fascinating thing.

Speaker B 00:38:37

Now obviously, as we sort of wrap up here, the acronym FIRE is important to us in terms of feedback, inspiration, resilience and empowerment.

Speaker B 00:38:46

I'll give you both the opportunity to respond.

Speaker B 00:38:49

And Erica, you can go first.

Speaker B 00:38:50

But what is it that first strikes you?

Speaker B 00:38:51

And it can be one word.

Speaker B 00:38:52

It can be a combination or just to the overall feeling.