Be The Ladder Foundation : Empowering Others to Fulfil Their Potential

Speaker A 00:00:02

Well, I've got a mantra which is don't just aspire to climb the ladder, be the ladder.

Speaker A 00:00:07

And what I've learned now is that the ability to give back and work with other people now I give them that sense of aspiration, that sense of belief, because they can see that I've done it.

Speaker A 00:00:20

If you believe in yourself, if you feel a sense of purpose, then that passion can really power up your education and give you a real sense of meaning in society.

Speaker A 00:00:33

Well, I'm here to be able to say I didn't go to university at all, but I've developed the life skills, the passion, the motivation which has enabled me to fulfill my potential.

Speaker A 00:00:46

Everybody should have that opportunity, not just those who have been able to demonstrate academic achievement.

Speaker A 00:00:54

And what's really sad about society is that those from lower of socioeconomic backgrounds who don't necessarily go on to achieve those academic qualifications are the ones that then lose out on the opportunity.

Speaker A 00:01:07

And that, to my mind, is absolutely wrong.

Speaker A 00:01:12

There is no such thing in my mind as an extraordinary person.

Speaker A 00:01:15

It's the things that we do that are extraordinary.

Speaker A 00:01:20

I realize actually the most powerful thing I could do in my life was to, to be the ladder.

Speaker A 00:01:25

And creating the foundation and the awards has been the most fulfilling thing that I've ever done in my career and I'm really proud of that.

Speaker B 00:01:34

Hello, my name is Mark Taylor and welcome to the Education on Far podcast, the place for creative and inspiring learning from around the world.

Speaker B 00:01:48

Listen to teachers, parents and mentors share how they are supporting children to live their best, authentic life and are proving to be a guiding light to us all.

Speaker B 00:01:56

Hi Trevor, thank you so much for joining us here on the Education on Far podcast.

Speaker B 00:02:00

It's always fantastic to chat to people who through their work life have actually entered education from a supportive point of view.

Speaker B 00:02:09

I'm part of the national association for Primary Education, so I understand that sort of charity bent on trying to support people in a slightly different way outside of the classroom too.

Speaker B 00:02:17

So I think this is going to be a really fantastic conversation.

Speaker B 00:02:20

And thanks so much for being here.

Speaker A 00:02:22

Oh, an absolute pleasure.

Speaker A 00:02:23

Thank you for having me.

Speaker B 00:02:25

So for those people who haven't come across your foundation before, take us into what Be the Ladder foundation is.

Speaker A 00:02:33

Well, I've got a mantra which is don't just aspire to climb the ladder, be the ladder.

Speaker A 00:02:38

And so for me, the foundation and the awards is an opportunity really for us to one, support those from under resourced backgrounds so that they can fulfill their potential.

Speaker A 00:02:53

And it's also through the awards, the Be the ladder awards a way of inspiring others who have climbed the ladder and broken through to really give back.

Speaker A 00:03:02

And I think if we bring those two elements together, creating this ladder of success, then we will finally impact on social mobility, which means a great deal to me given my own start in my career and what I've learned as being what is going to be helpful to help the next generation to break through.

Speaker A 00:03:25

Fundamentally important as we're seeing a widening of the attainment gap.

Speaker B 00:03:29

Yeah.

Speaker B 00:03:29

And take me into sort of where those ceilings are or where those attainments are.

Speaker B 00:03:35

So we're talking about supporting people who maybe wouldn't get the opportunities in other ways.

Speaker B 00:03:41

But is success a particular level?

Speaker B 00:03:43

Is it about getting the best grades, is it about university, is it a job?

Speaker B 00:03:46

Or is it about actually just achieving more than the perceived idea would be from where they're starting?

Speaker B 00:03:51

Point was.

Speaker A 00:03:53

So for me success is fulfilling your potential.

Speaker A 00:03:56

And you know, my story, I think is a case in point.

Speaker A 00:04:00

My parents came here from Jamaica in 1959.

Speaker A 00:04:04

I was brought up in an area where there wasn't a great deal of intolerance.

Speaker A 00:04:09

I struggled through my school years.

Speaker A 00:04:11

I underachieved and I left school at what was 16 or 17.

Speaker A 00:04:15

And it was pure chance when I was offered by careers advisor three possible job opportunities, a tennis racket stringer or warehouseman, or to join a law firm essentially as a postal clerk.

Speaker A 00:04:28

And it was that last of the three options that I took.

Speaker A 00:04:33

And whilst in that, that job I thought to myself I'd really underachieved, I should have been able to do more.

Speaker A 00:04:40

And so I took to learning evenings, weekend courses.

Speaker A 00:04:45

I did whatever it took to be able to educate myself in law.

Speaker A 00:04:49

And I went on to qualify as a solicitor at the of 25, became a partner at 28 and in 2001 became the first black senior partner of a top 100 UK law firm.

Speaker A 00:05:00

And what that tells me is that there were a number of reasons, socioeconomic reasons that had caused me to underachieve.

Speaker A 00:05:09

And that's why I'm really determined now to be able to use my know how to help others so that we can ensure that everybody fulfills their potential.

Speaker A 00:05:19

Everybody has a, an entitlement to be given the opportunity to fulfill their potential.

Speaker B 00:05:26

So what was it, do you think that you learned as you got older that was sort of, you didn't know earlier on which, which was holding you back that then changed as you sort of got those insights?

Speaker A 00:05:37

Well, it's a strange thing, isn't it, because you don't know what you don't know when you're young and so you, you're relying on, on those around you to be able to sort of show you the way.

Speaker A 00:05:45

And my parents, having not been schooled here, having come from somewhere else, struggle good with the system as it was.

Speaker A 00:05:53

So I was really very much left to try and find my way.

Speaker A 00:05:57

And without the kind of role models around me at that time and without people that would believe in me and give me that sense of you can do this.

Speaker A 00:06:08

I didn't believe in myself.

Speaker A 00:06:10

There was no one around me that had been to university, for example, in my family.

Speaker A 00:06:16

And so I really just felt that leaving school, just surviving school actually was enough.

Speaker A 00:06:25

I wasn't aspirational.

Speaker A 00:06:27

And what I've learned now is that the ability to give back and work with other people now I give them that sense of aspiration, that sense of belief because they can see that I've done it and so that know how.

Speaker A 00:06:41

And that inspiration, I think is fundamentally important, which is, you know, behind the concept of being the ladder.

Speaker B 00:06:48

And I think for me there's something I can relate to.

Speaker B 00:06:51

I mean, I'm a musician by trade.

Speaker B 00:06:53

I was given the opportunity at school, which was down to having to sort of two young, young teachers in the music department who were very sort of forward thinking and wanted everyone to learn about music, a supportive head and then just extra pupils around me a year or two ahead who were then involved in not just playing at school, but in ensembles around the school in the county.

Speaker B 00:07:13

Then they went to music college and then they were in the profession.

Speaker B 00:07:15

And so like I say, there was that natural thing of well, if they're doing it, why can't I?

Speaker B 00:07:19

You know, we know there's a slightly bigger picture than that in terms of the reality of those things coming.

Speaker B 00:07:24

But I think, like I say, if you don't know what is available, if you haven't experienced it yourself or what's possible, then what, what, what do you expect from like say people who don't have that opportunity?

Speaker A 00:07:35

Absolutely.

Speaker A 00:07:36

If you go home and your parents understand the system, if they've been to university, they know how to, to drive you forwards.

Speaker A 00:07:45

They're going to make sure that you have all that it takes to do your homework, all of those kind of, you know, I didn't have that around me and I didn't have the belief really that I could be anything more than say, my parents had been.

Speaker A 00:08:01

So I didn't set the bar high.

Speaker A 00:08:03

I set it as a sort of survival level which, particularly in that at that time because of some of the challenges in society, you know, getting out of school and just being able to get a job was success.

Speaker A 00:08:17

Whereas now I understand, actually, that if you believe in yourself, if you feel a sense of purpose, then that passion can really power up your education and give you a real sense of meaning in society.

Speaker B 00:08:33

Yeah, and I think.

Speaker B 00:08:34

I think that's really true.

Speaker B 00:08:35

So take us into how the foundation, first of all, is doing that, because I know there's sort of different areas that you're able to support people with, and then we'll sort of talk a little bit more about sort of the journey to make it a reality and sort of your journey within that as well.

Speaker A 00:08:49

So I wanted to find out how my experiences could be used positively to impact on schools, and I've been invited into a number of schools to give talk, so I really wanted to try and formalise that more.

Speaker A 00:09:03

So, and these three great schools that wanted to engage with me, and they shared with me a deep insight into some of the challenges faced by those from lower socioeconomic backgrounds.

Speaker A 00:09:17

So using that insight and working with a neuroscientist as well, Dr.

Speaker A 00:09:21

Mike Stan win Stanley, we've been able to understand how we can have a positive impact.

Speaker A 00:09:28

And so very simple ways.

Speaker A 00:09:29

We've created a Be the Ladder program, and as part of this program, we will fund private tuition.

Speaker A 00:09:37

We know that even just a limited amount of additional private tuition can have a significant impact and put somebody back on track.

Speaker A 00:09:46

We will fund enrichments, workshops, public speaking workshops, but in a very sort of informal setting, such as drama classes.

Speaker A 00:09:56

You know, if you're doing some drama, then what you're learning, you're learning a script, you're learning how, you know, public speaking, you can be creative, you're becoming somebody else, you know, those kind of things.

Speaker A 00:10:06

So enrichment, private tuition, as well as funding for equipment, we want people to be able to.

Speaker A 00:10:13

For example, we've just funded a number of support packs for young people that are transitioning from primary school to high school.

Speaker A 00:10:21

We can ensure that their first day at high school is one where they can be proud that they've got all the equipment that they need, very basic equipment, sometimes calculators and things like that.

Speaker A 00:10:31

But that first day now will be one of pride.

Speaker A 00:10:34

So all of these things are things that the Be the Ladder program will facilitate and will be funded by those organizations that are, you know, marked in society as having, you know, being organizations of success.

Speaker A 00:10:48

So law firms, for example, will be able to help fund that next generation so we can make an impact on those from Lower socio economic backgrounds.

Speaker B 00:11:00

And so do you fund these things directly as in people get in touch with you through the foundation and then it's sort of individually then assigned or are you working with other charities and other organizations that are already sort of have a foothold in some of these areas?

Speaker A 00:11:15

So we're doing a number of things really.

Speaker A 00:11:17

Initially we've set up the foundation as a pilot, so we're working with three schools in particular, primary and secondary.

Speaker A 00:11:27

This enables us to measure the impact of the support that we give.

Speaker A 00:11:32

And those schools are assisting us in being able to select those that qualify to be part of the program.

Speaker A 00:11:41

So those are from lower socioeconomic backgrounds.

Speaker A 00:11:44

We're not restricting that to those who qualify for free school meals because we understand that there are many that would qualify but don't necessarily receive free school meals.

Speaker A 00:11:54

So we're working with them to be able to choose those that will be selected for the program.

Speaker A 00:11:59

And then once on the program, they can get the rungs of support which I've outlined, whether it be private tuition, whether it be part of the re enrichment workshops or funding for equipment.

Speaker A 00:12:13

So once you qualify for the program, it opens you up to a suite of support and then we will measure the support and be able to demonstrate impact.

Speaker A 00:12:23

And once we've done that, we're going to broaden this out so it becomes available to schools hopefully across the country.

Speaker B 00:12:31

And in terms of your sort of passion for doing this, take us a little bit back in.

Speaker B 00:12:35

You sort of, you sort of glossed over it very, you know, you started in one part of the law firm and then you studied and then all of a sudden you became a solicitor.

Speaker B 00:12:43

I know there's always much more to it in terms of the hours and the willpower that's from that.

Speaker B 00:12:47

But having then sort of reached your sort of your success, you got to the point where you're able to make an impact.

Speaker B 00:12:54

What was it then that you thought, right now I've been given the opportunity that you wanted to take this idea forward or you wanted to sort of make an impact where you were working and then broaden that out.

Speaker B 00:13:04

Because that's not something that everyone necessarily does.

Speaker A 00:13:07

I think people think, for example, to be a lawyer you need to be extraordinary in some way.

Speaker A 00:13:15

What my story demonstrates is that actually you don't.

Speaker A 00:13:19

It's about ordinary people achieving extraordinary things.

Speaker A 00:13:23

And an example of that is, as I said, I left school with very little in the way of qualification.

Speaker A 00:13:28

But once in the right environment, I went on to excel.

Speaker A 00:13:33

Not only did I qualify as a solicitor, I have run some of the country's highest profile legal actions.

Speaker A 00:13:40

I've been to the House of Lords and won.

Speaker A 00:13:43

I've won many, many awards and accolades.

Speaker A 00:13:46

Last year I received two doctorates.

Speaker A 00:13:48

And why that is relevant is it just go to show that as I say, ordinary people can achieve the extraordinary.

Speaker A 00:13:56

My story I think shows us that there are many people like me who might not have been seen as somebody who had something and therefore they would have lacked self belief that don't go on to fulfill their potential.

Speaker A 00:14:13

And I'm here to say, look at my story and look what I've managed to achieve.

Speaker A 00:14:18

If I can.

Speaker A 00:14:20

You can.

Speaker A 00:14:21

And so once I started climbing the ladder, I just felt it was really important of me to be able to give back.

Speaker A 00:14:29

So it's not something which happened.

Speaker A 00:14:30

There wasn't a big bang moment.

Speaker A 00:14:32

When I was in my twenties, I set up a mentoring scheme supported by now Lord Boating actually.

Speaker A 00:14:40

So something I've always done.

Speaker A 00:14:42

It's just that I now feel I'm at the point of my career, the top rung of the ladder, so to speak, where I have a certain authority which means that it can really make a difference.

Speaker A 00:14:53

As a senior partner of a law firm, I can, you know, engage with people at a certain level where I can actually truly have an impact on the next generation coming through.

Speaker A 00:15:04

And that's fundamental.

Speaker A 00:15:05

I was the first black senior partner and in that capacity I have to use that to impact and improve the experiences of the next generation.

Speaker B 00:15:17

I really love that.

Speaker B 00:15:18

And I think the thing that's probably as inspiration is anything in that.

Speaker B 00:15:22

I think, of course my experience within education is the fact that everyone gets very bogged down about the fact that there's certain points you have to hit.

Speaker B 00:15:31

You know, you have to be doing this for GCSE or this for A level and then you go to university or you get a job and that's kind of it.

Speaker B 00:15:37

If you haven't done those things, you've missed the boat or you're going to make it very hard for yourself.

Speaker B 00:15:41

And I think chatting to you, the big thing and the big takeaway for me is the fact that when you're ready to do whatever it is that you're passionate about and what you're purposeful about, you can find a way to do it.

Speaker B 00:15:53

So that might be that you're getting your A levels or doing the studying that you want post the age that the system tells you you're supposed to be doing it.

Speaker B 00:16:00

And actually it doesn't matter because once it's about you and you're doing it for the right reasons for you, then the opportunities are there.

Speaker B 00:16:06

And like you say, I think you then draw the people and you find the conversations and the organizations that can help you do that.

Speaker B 00:16:12

And I think no matter what your circumstances, when you hear enough of those stories, then you suddenly feel like you've got a bit of ownership of your learning, which I think the system doesn't necessarily help you with, depending on what those experiences are to begin with.

Speaker A 00:16:26

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker A 00:16:27

I think qualifications are clearly a pathway to opportunities, but with or without them, motivation and passion, they are the real keys to unlock fulfilling your potential.

Speaker A 00:16:47

If you are passionate about something, if you are hard working.

Speaker A 00:16:54

Problem is that we still live in a society which relies so much on qualification on academic achievement.

Speaker A 00:17:02

Not even if you went to university, but did you go to the right university?

Speaker A 00:17:08

Well, I'm here to be able to say I didn't go to university at all, but I've developed the life skills, the passion, the motivation which has enabled me to fulfill my potential.

Speaker A 00:17:19

Everybody should have that opportunity, not just those who have been able to demonstrate academic achievement.

Speaker A 00:17:28

And what's really sad about society is that those from low socioeconomic backgrounds who don't necessarily go on to achieve those academic qualifications are the ones that then lose out on the opportunity.

Speaker A 00:17:41

And that to my mind is absolutely.

Speaker B 00:17:43

Wrong because the like you say, I think you mentioned earlier on, the gap just gets wider from an earlier standpoint and then it's very hard to sort of bridge that.

Speaker B 00:17:53

And I think it's one of these things about as technology starts to change, you would think that the stories that people see, the opportunities, the vision from other people should be going into their social media feeds.

Speaker B 00:18:07

If we take people who are old enough and they're on social media to be able to see all these opportunities that people are able to share would be a positive thing because if it wasn't part of their actual experience.

Speaker B 00:18:17

We know how negative social media can be because you're being fed things which aren't particularly supportive, but you would hope that we could reverse that and actually have a positive version of that as well to at least like say to get that in the, in sort of invitation to learn a little bit more kind of in people's psyche, but also to understand where they might be able to take that and the people that they want to be following and the people that they want to learn from and actually grow from that point.

Speaker A 00:18:43

Well, that's why it's important for me to be there to be seen and for those that have achieved to be there, to be seen.

Speaker A 00:18:49

Because we can use social media in a very positive way to inspire others.

Speaker A 00:18:54

Of course, social media can also play into stereotypes.

Speaker A 00:18:58

It can also give an impression that if you're from a certain background that actually you're not going to achieve.

Speaker A 00:19:06

So it's a double edged sword.

Speaker A 00:19:08

The more people that we have, that have climbed the ladder, that have achieved success, that then want to be the ladder and they can use social media as a tool for that, the more we will inspire the next generation.

Speaker A 00:19:23

And that's why I think it's important to really recognize and celebrate actually those that are being the ladder, because in doing so it will encourage others to be the ladder.

Speaker A 00:19:35

And the more people that climb the ladder, the more that can use tools such as social media to tell their stories and to give belief to others.

Speaker A 00:19:42

So that is very much my philosophy around, you know, being the ladder.

Speaker B 00:19:48

Yeah.

Speaker B 00:19:48

And I think you, you learn from within your sphere of influence, don't you?

Speaker B 00:19:53

And your community at large.

Speaker B 00:19:54

And like you say, so if more and more people are doing that and understanding that, then that ability to, to show the way is, is going to be clearer and is that's essentially what your reward system is in terms of being able to celebrate those.

Speaker B 00:20:06

So take us into sort of how that works and how people can get involved or at least be aware of the purpose of that.

Speaker A 00:20:13

Yeah.

Speaker A 00:20:13

So we wanted to make sure that the foundation was sustainable.

Speaker A 00:20:18

So to have a fundraising mechanism was really important.

Speaker A 00:20:23

And it seemed to us that one way to do that was to have an awards ceremony, if you like, on an annual basis.

Speaker A 00:20:32

And those awards, the Be the Ladder Awards, are there to recognize and celebrate those that have been the ladder.

Speaker A 00:20:39

So we invite people to nominate those that have been in their lives, that have been the ladder for them, that have inspired them in some way or if they have inspired others, they can self nominate.

Speaker A 00:20:53

And then we will celebrate the not just the fact that they've been the ladder, but the impact of them being the ladder.

Speaker A 00:21:01

And we know storytelling is powerful.

Speaker A 00:21:03

So the more we get to showcase and tell the stories of those that have been the Ladder, the more it will inspire others.

Speaker A 00:21:10

And the more that the next generation can see those that have been successful and what we are doing is giving back, the more it will shape them and give them self belief.

Speaker A 00:21:22

So for us to be the Ladder, Awards is hugely significant.

Speaker A 00:21:26

And I've been buoyed and inspired by the nominations we've received.

Speaker A 00:21:31

So many people doing fantastic things to inspire the next generation.

Speaker A 00:21:36

So the more we can Showcase that the better, the more ladders we can build, the better for society, I believe.

Speaker B 00:21:43

Absolutely.

Speaker B 00:21:44

And I think that's why I love these conversations that we can have on the podcast, because what it means is that people are hearing about all these things and how the world is improving and how people are supporting everybody.

Speaker B 00:21:54

Because it's very easy for people's attention to be drawn to everything else that's going on, whether it's news, whether it's like, say, various social media feeds, that the algorithms are telling you what's important, rather than actually telling those positive stories which are an integral part of what's actually happening and probably more likely to be happening within your, your local community, in your world than all the other stuff that get bombarded with.

Speaker A 00:22:17

I think it's really important.

Speaker A 00:22:18

Society right now sends out mixed messages.

Speaker A 00:22:22

We see that from a political perspective, what we really need to do, and we must never forget this, that actually going back to your initial question about what success looks like, look, success is if you live a fulfilled life where you're caring and compassionate, where you care about your neighbor, whether you care about people in society.

Speaker A 00:22:44

That's true success.

Speaker A 00:22:46

What we do for our careers is part of our personal success, but success as a society is for it to be caring and compassionate.

Speaker A 00:22:54

So the idea that we celebrate those who have been the ladder, being caring, compassionate, is fundamental to, I think, having a strong society where we are about caring for each other.

Speaker A 00:23:09

We saw through the pandemic, the celebrations for our nhs, for being caring and compassionate, the work of teachers who are trying to help us build a generation of those that will have fulfilled lives.

Speaker A 00:23:23

They're the kind of people we should be celebrating on a daily basis, showcasing them.

Speaker A 00:23:29

And, you know, when I say the Be the Letter Awards nominate, there'll be people that, whose lives are being shaped by a teacher who gave them that bit of advice, that bit of inspiration.

Speaker A 00:23:40

We can reach back down and we can say to that teacher, I thank you.

Speaker A 00:23:45

Here's the recognition of that and I hope in doing so that we will not only inspire others to then want to give back, we'll inspire others to want to be teachers.

Speaker A 00:23:57

So I think the Be Ladder project will hopefully become a movement and we will make sure that that being caring and compassionate is top of the list of what success looks like.

Speaker B 00:24:09

I think that's fantastic and it really paints.

Speaker B 00:24:11

It paints a visual picture of what that looks like and I think people can take that away, but I think you can, you can hear and feel that.

Speaker B 00:24:18

And I think that idea of a movement that idea that we're all part of it, wherever you happen to have that touch point, like say, that carries an awful lot of weight and an awful lot of power, I think, for people moving forward.

Speaker B 00:24:28

And I know you've got a podcast as well, so I guess that's another way to be able to sort of showcase the sorts of things that you're talking about.

Speaker A 00:24:35

About.

Speaker A 00:24:37

Yeah, the podcast is utriant.

Speaker A 00:24:39

So it's you triumph, if you believe you and hyphen triumph.

Speaker A 00:24:43

The letter youth and hyphen triumph.

Speaker A 00:24:45

And what I did was I actually metaphorically invited people who have succeeded to climb a ladder.

Speaker A 00:24:51

And it starts with what success has looked like, what they've achieved, having become successful.

Speaker A 00:24:57

Then I've taken them to the bottom of that are where it all started.

Speaker A 00:25:01

And then the middle of the ladder of the challenges that they've had to overcome.

Speaker A 00:25:05

And we've.

Speaker A 00:25:06

I've interviewed some incre people, you know, people like Sean Wallace, the chaser on itv.

Speaker A 00:25:10

People don't realize that even though he won Mastermind, he actually struggled through school years.

Speaker A 00:25:17

He managed to eventually become a barrister, but he didn't go in his mind to the right type of university, you know, that we often see.

Speaker A 00:25:25

He struggled during his early career as a barrister, but yet he went on to win Mastermind.

Speaker A 00:25:32

And you know, Martin Griffiths, again, somebody brought up in in South London, single parent ET had a challenging upbringing, but he's gone on to become one of the top black surgeons in the country, if not one of the most influential.

Speaker A 00:25:49

So by telling these stories, actually it's inspirational and empowering because these are ordinary people that have gone on to achieve the extraordinary.

Speaker A 00:26:00

And I'm really proud of the U Triumph podcast.

Speaker A 00:26:05

I think I've learned a lot and I've realized that, you know, somebody like me is not actually unique.

Speaker A 00:26:12

There are so many people out there that are determined to help inspire others to come through.

Speaker B 00:26:19

And I think that's the really brilliant thing, isn't it?

Speaker B 00:26:21

Is the fact that making the extraordinary or the seemingly extraordinary ordinary means that you can understand how that might be possible for you or apply it to people that you know.

Speaker B 00:26:32

And also when you realize that it doesn't look a certain way because I think that's.

Speaker B 00:26:35

That's going back to what we said about the experience is the fact that in order for me to do whatever that goal or passion is, it needs to look a certain way to get there.

Speaker B 00:26:43

When you hear enough stories where you realize they're all didn't go from A to Z, you know, we went through all of the different parts of the journey, we went up, we went down, we were backwards, forwards, different places to actually achieve or to at least enjoy that journey to where we deemed to be where we wanted to go, to fulfill that purpose.

Speaker B 00:27:01

Then you realize it doesn't actually matter whether you think that this was a wrong path or a right path or an opportunity or not.

Speaker B 00:27:07

It's all part of that journey to get there.

Speaker B 00:27:09

And at that point, I think you then feel that anything is possible and that there is no right or wrong way of doing it.

Speaker B 00:27:15

And I think that then becomes really powerful too.

Speaker A 00:27:18

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker A 00:27:19

I'm, you know, senior partner of a law firm, but yet I'm also a guy who's very proudly from Mitcham in South London who's, you know, the son of a carpenter.

Speaker A 00:27:32

You know, I'm a family man with three kids.

Speaker A 00:27:37

I adopted my daughter because I felt it was important to give back and to give an opportunity for anybody who's within the care system.

Speaker A 00:27:48

So I've lived my life buying to do what I think is right.

Speaker A 00:27:53

And what I've realized most significantly now is, is that it's important for somebody like me to be able to present in an authentic way, be proud of my background.

Speaker A 00:28:06

I am.

Speaker A 00:28:06

I'm proud to be somebody from a very ordinary background and show that somebody who's ordinary can achieve extraordinary things.

Speaker A 00:28:15

There is no such thing in my mind as an extraordinary person.

Speaker A 00:28:19

It's the things that we do that are extraordinary.

Speaker A 00:28:24

And so.

Speaker A 00:28:25

So the Be the Ladder foundation, the Be the Ladder Awards, is all about showing that ordinary people achieving the extraordinary, if they have the right mindset and are given the opportunities, we can really level our society.

Speaker A 00:28:44

And that's only right.

Speaker A 00:28:45

There should be more people like me.

Speaker A 00:28:49

Because I was lucky.

Speaker A 00:28:51

Those three job options, I could have taken one of the others and my story wouldn't have been as influential.

Speaker A 00:28:59

I shouldn't have to rely on luck.

Speaker B 00:29:02

And I guess there's a little bit about making your own luck in being in the right place at the right time as well.

Speaker B 00:29:07

That's probably.

Speaker B 00:29:08

Probably a different podcast, too.

Speaker B 00:29:10

And I also just wanted to pick up on.

Speaker B 00:29:12

On what you said there about the extraordinary and the ordinary, just in one final context, which is the fact that it's almost all of those little things that you do which seem to be just another thing.

Speaker B 00:29:25

This is part of your normal day, but it's having that mindset, you know, why am I doing this?

Speaker B 00:29:30

How is it supporting people?

Speaker B 00:29:32

How is it supporting society?

Speaker B 00:29:34

How is it supporting me?

Speaker B 00:29:35

And why am I Doing it and all the little things, then I think you say create that bigger picture however you want to, put a label on it.

Speaker B 00:29:41

But like I say, if it's supporting people, then that's an absolute win.

Speaker B 00:29:45

Win for everybody.

Speaker A 00:29:47

Yeah.

Speaker A 00:29:47

And I think, you know, sometimes we think if you're a top footballer, Premier League footballer, that, you know, that's to be looked up at.

Speaker A 00:29:55

And of course it is, but it's.

Speaker A 00:29:57

It's the ordinary people doing ordinary jobs.

Speaker A 00:29:59

They're the ones that we should be really celebrating, not just the Premier League footballers, you know, And I've seen that as somebody who's gone on to become, you know, a lawyer.

Speaker A 00:30:10

Like, I have.

Speaker A 00:30:10

People look at that with respect, but I want people to be looked at with respect at whatever their job title.

Speaker A 00:30:20

I just want to make sure we all are given the opportunity to fulfill our potential.

Speaker A 00:30:25

And in doing that, that is success.

Speaker A 00:30:26

And let's celebrate.

Speaker A 00:30:29

And it seems very simple to me now because I aspire to climb the ladder.

Speaker A 00:30:35

Having got that to the top of the ladder, I realized actually the most powerful thing I could do in my life was to be the ladder.

Speaker A 00:30:42

And creating the foundation and the awards has been the most fulfilling thing that I've ever done in my career, and I'm really proud of that.

Speaker B 00:30:52

And you mentioned before about everyone remembers a teacher or situation which has kind of been supportive for them or whatever.

Speaker B 00:30:58

Is there a teacher that you remember or that education experience which can always be positive or negative that you kind of remember that kind of had that sort of impact?

Speaker A 00:31:08

Yeah, there are two, actually.

Speaker A 00:31:10

One is a teacher called Jan Vevers at my high school, Tamworth Manor.

Speaker A 00:31:16

She was a geography teacher and she was just so.

Speaker A 00:31:20

Just so kind.

Speaker A 00:31:22

And the way she.

Speaker A 00:31:22

She taught geography, you always felt knowledgeable.

Speaker A 00:31:28

And so it's interesting because I had no interest in geography before I met her, and that was one of the few GCSES O levels, as they were, that I went on to pass because she gave me that sense of belief.

Speaker A 00:31:41

So she's somebody, I would definitely say, inspired me.

Speaker A 00:31:44

And the other person is just a lovely, lovely man called Colin Twitchell, who's a PE teacher.

Speaker A 00:31:51

And again, he.

Speaker A 00:31:53

He just gave you that sense of.

Speaker A 00:31:55

The fundamental thing to do with your life, Trevor, is to enjoy it, you know, and it just took a lot of the pressure off.

Speaker A 00:32:05

So.

Speaker A 00:32:06

And, you know, when I think back now, I would have been 12, 13, and yet.

Speaker A 00:32:11

And here I am, a man in his 50s who still remembers those messages.

Speaker A 00:32:18

So, you know, teachers are so important.

Speaker A 00:32:20

Important.

Speaker A 00:32:21

Really important.

Speaker B 00:32:22

Absolutely.

Speaker B 00:32:23

And is there that you sort of shared.

Speaker B 00:32:26

That's always a great piece of advice as it was.

Speaker B 00:32:28

But something that you might give your younger self now or something that you heard, that had an impact too.

Speaker A 00:32:35

Yeah, I would, I would say to the younger me believe in you.

Speaker A 00:32:39

You know, because I, I didn't.

Speaker A 00:32:41

The one thing I lacked was self belief.

Speaker A 00:32:44

And now I realize that I was my own worst enemy in many ways.

Speaker A 00:32:51

I listened to the external noise that would suggest that somebody like me couldn't go on to do X, Y and Z.

Speaker A 00:32:59

Whereas actually what I should have been telling myself is I'm capable of anything if I'm prepared to apply myself.

Speaker A 00:33:06

That's what I proved to myself in the end.

Speaker A 00:33:10

I wish I'd done that earlier and younger because I made my journey more difficult.

Speaker A 00:33:15

Even though I don't regret it.

Speaker A 00:33:17

I wish I'd, you know, during my primary school years, I wish I'd believed in myself.

Speaker A 00:33:24

And then I think my journey would have been a bit better, a bit easier later.

Speaker B 00:33:29

And I guess, like I say, the, the flip side of that is the fact that maybe your journey, exactly as it is, is the thing that's going to help you with the foundation in terms of that story being a different version, which then is more relatable to more people.

Speaker B 00:33:42

You can sort of ye depending on what that final sort of like say inspirational moment is for everybody to better.

Speaker A 00:33:49

No.

Speaker A 00:33:49

No regrets, just reflection.

Speaker B 00:33:51

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker B 00:33:53

And is there a resource that you'd like to share?

Speaker B 00:33:56

And that can be anything from a video, song, book, film, podcast.

Speaker B 00:34:00

I know we've mentioned your podcast already and it can be professional.

Speaker B 00:34:03

Yeah.

Speaker B 00:34:03

Or personal.

Speaker B 00:34:04

But something which is.

Speaker B 00:34:06

Might be interesting for people.

Speaker A 00:34:08

Yeah, I mean, two things I think, please do listen to the podcast.

Speaker A 00:34:10

It's some wonderful people that I've had the privilege of interviewing.

Speaker A 00:34:15

And as I say, if you just go to Spotify or any other wherever you access your podcast, either Trevor Sterling podcast or Utriant the Letter U Triumph podcast, hopefully that they'll inspire and be of interest.

Speaker A 00:34:32

And then the other thing really is, you know, as part of the Be the Ladder movement, please to link him with our Be The Ladder Awards LinkedIn page.

Speaker A 00:34:45

Follow us, Comment Share Support us We're trying to create a Be the Ladder movement.

Speaker A 00:34:50

But if I may also say, the one thing that we would love people to do is to, as I say, nominate somebody who's been there ladder or self nominate.

Speaker A 00:35:02

We really want to be able to share those stories.

Speaker A 00:35:06

So the most the resource I would refer to is our Be the ladder awards LinkedIn page so that people can nominate accordingly.

Speaker B 00:35:17

Fantastic.

Speaker B 00:35:18

And we'll make sure there's links to the show notes on those as well.

Speaker B 00:35:20

So people can hopefully click straight through as well as what is searching.

Speaker B 00:35:24

So.

Speaker B 00:35:24

Fantastic.

Speaker B 00:35:25

Now, obviously the acronym FIRE is important to us here from Education on fire.

Speaker B 00:35:30

And by that we mean feedback, inspiration, resilience and empowerment.

Speaker B 00:35:35

What is it that strikes you when you hear that?

Speaker B 00:35:37

Either one of those words or a collection.

Speaker A 00:35:42

Well, all of them are great.

Speaker A 00:35:45

I probably would go with empowerment.

Speaker A 00:35:48

Empowerment.

Speaker A 00:35:49

There's a concept I call the common line.

Speaker A 00:35:53

The common line is the point above the earth's atmosphere at which you're beyond gravity.

Speaker A 00:35:59

And the challenge to get there is the gravitational pull.

Speaker A 00:36:03

It's really difficult for us to be able to elevate.

Speaker A 00:36:07

And the one thing that enables us to get to it is one, pressing what I call the button of self belief, that's press the ignition, and two, motivation, having the right fuel.

Speaker A 00:36:20

So I think with the right fuel and if you press the button of self belief, you can eventually get to the karma line, a place of sort of spiritual freedom.

Speaker A 00:36:28

So that's all about empowering yourself.

Speaker A 00:36:32

And you empower yourself if you fill your life with the right type of fuel, the right type of motivation and passion.

Speaker A 00:36:40

And if you press the button of self belief, that's the ignition.

Speaker A 00:36:44

And that will get you to the karma line.

Speaker A 00:36:47

And we need to get as many people to the karma line as is possible because it's a tremendous place when you feel spiritually free from gravity.

Speaker A 00:36:56

The things that hold you down and pull you back.

Speaker B 00:36:59

I love that.

Speaker B 00:37:00

And I think the thing that my biggest takeaway from this great conversation is the ability that it has to be about you, you, no matter where you are and your age.

Speaker B 00:37:08

Because like you say, even everything that you've achieved to the point within your career to then know that there's something more you want to give back, a different way that you can give back, like I said, from your personal family standpoint to then doing the foundation and.

Speaker B 00:37:22

And the people that are going to benefit from all of that.

Speaker B 00:37:24

So there's that kind of what is it that I'm doing?

Speaker B 00:37:26

And the what then gets drawn out of you from that point of view to then whatever it is that you do.

Speaker B 00:37:31

Like I say, whether it's a conversation, whether it's change of career, whether it's setting a foundation, whether it's just being influential someone in whichever way that happens to be, it means that we can all do that and understand how we can fit that within our lives.

Speaker B 00:37:44

And I think if we can, like, say, impact people to at least have a thought about what all this means, let alone actually then.

Speaker B 00:37:50

Then taking the next steps.

Speaker B 00:37:51

And this has been a really important conversation.

Speaker B 00:37:54

So, Trevor, thank you so much, indeed.

Speaker B 00:37:56

I really appreciate it.

Speaker A 00:37:58

It's been an absolute, absolute pleasure.

Speaker A 00:38:01

Thank you.

Speaker A 00:38:02

This podcast itself is being the ladder, and I really appreciate the opportunity to you.

Speaker B 00:38:08

Thank.

Speaker A 00:38:08

Thank you.

Speaker B 00:38:10

Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire.