Night Zookeeper: Turning Reluctant Writers into Confident Storytellers | Joshua Davidson

Mark Taylor 00:00:00

Hello. Welcome back to Education on Fire. Today I'm delighted to be chatting to Joshua Davidson and he's the creator and co founder of Night Zookeeper, an award winning online learning program that helps children aged 6 to 12 fall in love with reading, writing and creativity through games and storytelling. He's also the author of the Night Zookeeper adventure book series which follows Night Zookeeper will in the magical night zoo filled with fantastical creatures dreamed up by children. Now Josh is passionate about giving kids the confidence to see themselves as writers and creators and he speaks regularly on the power of play stories and co created worlds in education. Now you can get a free trial and 50% off an annual subscription using my affiliate link www.educationonfire.com knightzookeeper hello, my name is Mark Taylor and welcome to the Education on Fire podcast, The place for creative and inspiring learning from around the world. Listen to teachers, parents and mentors show how they are supporting children to live their best, authentic life and are proving to be a guiding light to us all. Hi Josh, thank you so much for joining us here on the Education on Fire podcast. As the vice chair of the national association for Primary Education. Anything which fits into that Key Stage 1, Key Stage 2 world, especially in this sort of national year of reading and all that sort of stuff, this ties in really brilliantly and we sort of have that educational stunt from that point of view. But I think the idea of the fun, the fact that these, this world that you've created is just so much intrigue and an environment that kids can really step into is a really exciting and a fantastic learning experience. So yeah, thanks so much for being here.

Joshua Davidson 00:01:41

Oh, thank you so, so much for having me.

Mark Taylor 00:01:43

So why don't you take us into the Night Zookeeper? If there's anyone in the world who hasn't come across already, just give us a little kind of idea of first of all the online platform and then we'll, we'll talk about that journey through the apps in the book and that kind of thing from there.

Joshua Davidson 00:01:59

Sure, yeah. So, hello. Hello everyone. Night Zookeeper is, as you say, it's a platform for childhood creativity. And we've used the story of a zoo at nighttime with unlimited potential for characters and character creation. And as a wonderful question for kids to get involved and, and think about unique characters that could exist in that story framework. It's a educational activity as old as time. I'm sure every primary school teacher has ran this with their kids, the character creation. But what I wanted to do as a kid that grew up with that being probably my favorite lesson in school was to make sure that we were using technology to make it as engaging and relevant as it has always been to a child's education. And there is so much potential in unleashing kids imaginations on the computer. So they're not just consuming what adults are telling them to consume, they are creating it. And you know, we can talk about the growing relevance of that hypothesis during the last decade or so. Nysukipa has been going 14, 15 years now if you can believe it. So you know, it's had to evolve over that, that time. But it's always maintained at its core this idea that the child is the hero, the creative hero and is going to drive co create this world with us.

Mark Taylor 00:03:30

And that's just perfectly fits with what we do here because we love the idea in the sense that the child is at the center of everything that we do. So whether you're a teacher, you're a parent, whether you're someone who's an author, designed an online platform, we're all here to help in our own particular ways, with our own particular strengths and creativity. So the symmetry is beautiful and I really love the way it does that. But you talked about that journey, that redevelopment, the creation side of it. So take us right back to when it first became a thing and that development through. Because it's one thing doing an app, it's one thing doing a book, it's one thing to suddenly than it being on television. So these things don't happen overnight. And time is one thing, but the creativity of that is an interesting journey too.

Joshua Davidson 00:04:15

Yeah, I still pinch myself that this is the journey that we've gone on. So to take you all the way back. I had the idea for the story when I was doing a fine art degree and I wrote a little book in my, my little notes about a spying giraffe that could turn invisible and an elephant that can travel in time. And then I did a master's in digital art and I was looking through my, my book of stories and ideas for inspiration and I found this story and I thought, hey, I'll make a sort of a wiki website. You remember when that technology was first emerging. And I'll put my charact in but that will be a great way for people to collaborate and come up with their own characters to exist as part of this. But we're going back 25 years. You know, this is, this is when this, this first sort of idea of using technology in this classic literacy game first originated. And then one of My best friends was studying to be a teaching assistant and then a teacher and they were, they brought me in. So we both fully embraced the role play. We dressed up as night zookeepers with little hats and jackets and I stood in front of a school of children and told them that I just arrived there with my teleporting torch and we just saw the engagement right there. And then, you know, the kids even, you know, this is in the north, and they spent lunchtime not playing football. They, they, they ran around pretending to be night zookeepers and magical animals. So it was, we were like, oh, okay, there's, there is something here. But, you know, took a bit of time. We, we had to save up some money before we could reliably start a business and do something with it. He went on to become the head of literacy at an international school. I was working in marketing. And then we sort of got to the point 10 years after that first school visit where we thought, well, we've saved up enough, maybe we could invest in a website. And we made a website and quit our jobs. And then we're back going around to schools across the UK dressed as night zookeepers, telling kids all about this website. I'm going to speed up a bit because, you know, we're still 10 years ago and you asked me a question. But we were able to convince investors that this was something that was worth investing in. That everything that was online and available for children, even on the BBC website at the time, was about compositing pre existing materials, you know, which I likened somewhat meanly too, but like a keyboard that can only play preset songs. So you were never letting them hit the notes, they were just hitting the button. And the song was which isn't Creativity is not how humans think. And it was the easy way to program a computer. We didn't want that. We wanted kids to be free, like they were on a piece of paper, but with all of the benefits of technology. So this came about at the same time that, you know, class blogs were starting to be used and there was a movement in UK schools towards blogging because you have that community that you can build around it, you can get comments and there's additional engagement. So there's a lot of inspiration in that. I had sort of, you know, my side was always on the creativity side and you know, the, the Ken Robinson talks and even Daniel Pink talking about the future of workplace and how creat is the human superpower. And I've always felt as someone who's, you know, from a Pure emotional level. Loved that escapism and immersion in the ideas and the worlds that we can build. Like, it's just something that's given me a huge comfort throughout my life. And the ideas I had as a child are still some of the most unique ideas that I've ever had in my life. Because you're just thinking in such a free way then. And I love those characters and those story worlds that I built as a kid. I just wanted kids to keep doing that. And I felt that the way technology was developing, we were not. We were not giving them room. And there's been efforts to improve that. You know, Minecraft is a great example of a sandbox that didn't exist when we started Night Zookeeper for kids to start building. But that's all optimized around engagement and play. And it wasn't optimized, although they created the Minecraft education thing later, it wasn't optimized around all the things that you can do once you engage a kid in their imagination for a learning outcome. And so that's what we've really wanted Night Zookeeper to be. So, yes, I will really fast forward now. We raised the money. We were able to grow a company by not so much working with schools, but ultimately working directly with parents. The schools have supported and, you know, share Night Zookeeper with their parents, but it's primarily been a parent supplemental learning tool because we've walked that line of language arts and creative tool the whole time. And that sort of our sort of handshake with the parents is that we're not writing for kids.com we're night zookeeper.com so the kids think I'm logging on to play Night Zookeeper. And so it has to be presented in a certain way to sort of create this world that they are, especially those reluctant writers and readers of the world. They. They think that they're engaging in something that is not something that has previously traumatized them, which is learning to write. We are the. We are again, we are a new creative outlet for them. And that, you know, that's worked really, really, really well. And we've been able to grow a business. I've been traveling, you know, banging my creativity drum anywhere that will have me. And that led to a great relationship with somebody who went on to be the head of Sky Kids. And so that was where the TV show came from, and a lady who helped get us into Oxford University Press to make the book. Um, and these. This is, you know, all I can really do is. Is. Is applaud this wonderful world we're in where most of the people that work with children and in the children's industries, whether it's on the education or the entertainment side, they are parents or they're, you know, they, they get it and they just want to make something good for kids. And you know, thankfully we've had their blessing. And that's why those things have happened because they can tell that we're genuine. And we, we really are trying to do something in a, in a, you know, let's be honest, a really tough commercial environment environment. But we are trying to do something here that is genuinely going to improve kids lives.

Mark Taylor 00:11:00

Yeah. And I think if I could sort of encapsulate the essence of what you said there, it's that sense of a child's in school or going to school and it's kind of now we're doing some reading and we're going, you know, write a store or whatever. However it's framed in that school, you start to see the glaze go over and that, oh, it's another day like that as opposed to we're going to be doing this and then it's oh, okay, great. And like say, where do I, where's the button? How do I get on? Can I do it for longer? And it's, and it really is chalk and cheese, isn't it? Even though like you say, if you're talking about learning outcomes and education per se, what you're actually able to achieve is what everyone's trying to achieve. But the medium is so and so important.

Joshua Davidson 00:11:49

It, it is, it's the, it's, it's the way it's presented. I think, you know, you can get it, you can get it wrong. And you know, I'm not going to name names or point fingers, but there is this negative perception of some education technology and it's because it's being optimized around Eng and just that piece, they're just going to make something as fun as possible and keep the learning as light as possible. But what's lovely, and you know what's lovely about our position in this is that it is inherently educational to create. Human beings have an active imaginations and when you listen to them, when you engage with a child and tell me and say to me, what are you interested in at the moment? Oh, you like ninjas? How about making a ninja badger? Oh yes please. I'm going to show you and I'm going to tell you as much as I possibly can about this ninja badger because I've just Just been reading this or watching this about ninjas. And I'm going to use all of that wonderful information that's buzzing around inside my head to now communicate it to you. And you get this situation where a child who would go into their shell and have no confidence and at all to be able to express their what's. What's buzzing around in the head, suddenly they're being given a platform and someone's asking them a question and now they're talking and now they're communicating and now they're realizing why they want to be able to learn to write. Why? Because you can then tell me. And it's that same great human, you know, round the campfire experience. We are born storytellers and we want to be able to communicate and connect with other human beings. And if you give the kid that opportunity to connect with somebody that's not just, you know, a piece of paper that's going to sit in their book and no one's going to look at this is something that can be. Their friends can all read and this is something that is going to be celebrated. But then they are going to do it.

Mark Taylor 00:13:45

And also there is no expectation. It's not like you're going to do this and then you're going to get an A star. In fact, if you don't get an A star then actually you could probably do a little bit harder because we know that just doesn't work. And then also there's the flip side which is that kind of I've really got something I want to share about this or a question I want to ask, but I think I'm expected to know the answer already because that's kind of where we're geared up. And so I think once you really start to understand those concepts, you realize why when you're given that freedom and that creativity and that willingness just to allow everything to sort of gush and explore, it's just, you can feel it just by talking about it, let alone actually doing it yourself doing it.

Joshua Davidson 00:14:26

Yeah, it is a rush. And what's lovely, I mean, you know, going back now to the, those early days. But one of my favorite sort of validation points was that you would go into a school and you would have, you know, reception age children talking to the year sixes about the same thing because you've just created your little creature and you know all about him. If you're a little 5, 6 year old and then the, the 10, 11 year olds there and they've created their character and they're, they're on the same level. Like, yes, the older child is going to write a really well formatted report and they're going to make a million, you know, corrections and really spend some time making the best possible profile for their creature. But it's the same creature, it's part of the same universe. And you have this peer learning happening to such an extent and I, I, you know, we underestimate it. Ultimately in schools we do underestimate the amount of, amount of learning. If you think about a workplace, you're constantly learning from all of the people around you. It is just how it is. And there's a manager, right, A facilitator, but the manager is not teaching every single person how to do everything you have. We have to use the kids and get them more collaborative. And that can only work if things are project based. Learning is working in a way that is inclusive of as many people as possible.

Mark Taylor 00:15:41

Yeah. And I think no matter how brilliant you are as a teacher and how understanding you are of children, you can't speak to a six or seven year old child like another six or seven year old child can speak to.

Joshua Davidson 00:15:53

Right.

Mark Taylor 00:15:54

Because you just aren't there anymore. You've got all this extra experience and even if you're being incredibly careful, you know, you're still an adult talking to a child and their perception of what you're saying, as brilliant as it might be, still has that sort of generation gap in that respect and all of those sorts of things. Things. Whereas talking in your class is a pair is one thing, but then I love that kind of two years older, three years older, four years older. Because then you have that kind of, oh, we're in a slightly different world than we've known before and actually they're not scary and they're going to really be helpful and we can create something together. They know a bit more than me, so I can. You feed off of the learning, don't you? Rather than being taught, I guess.

Joshua Davidson 00:16:32

Absolutely. Which is where you get these wonderful, you know, behavior advancements as well. Because if you can see an older child getting excited about this, you know, let's be honest, quite traditional skill of being able to sit and write a story and draw a picture, then it's going to become more relevant to you. If you're only ever seeing them, you know, talking about iPad screen this or phone this or the latest show on Netflix or whatever, then you're going to think that that's what you have to be and where you have to be. So it's really important that we, we show that actually the older children get the same magic out of creativity that you do as a younger age. And then, you know, it's that it is that classic. So again Robinson anecdote of, you know, the hands disappearing when that people are asked who they're artists, that's, that's happening. And the younger kids will see that and note that. But if you can deliver something that is open ended to the older kids where there are more pressures, you know, on the teachers, there's a lot of pressures to, you know, teach to exams and make sure that the kids are delivered a clear curriculum. But if you can make space for some of the joys of learning and the joys of creative and imagination and then get a witness of that inside your community where there's younger kids are seeing that that is still relevant. It is still relevant. As you get older, then you're going to have more hands staying up. You are going to have kids understanding that inside themselves they love this and it's okay to love this.

Mark Taylor 00:18:03

And because I think creativity in itself is quite hard to define or to quantify in the same way as I've written this paragraph because like say inherently we know whether the grammar's right or if it makes sense. And that kind of thing is this creative? Where's it come from? How do I know how that fits in? And I think it's only by experiencing it and doing it. Like say the project based learning. And then you sort of realize how everyone's input suddenly has created something which wasn't prescriptive. It wasn't like, this is our outcome, we're on this journey together. And then you're like, oh, I now see what we did, which was creative rather than this is creative.

Joshua Davidson 00:18:40

Absolutely. That is the output. Right. And again, this is what you just don't get in 99% of e learning, if you want to call it that. It's all very much learn and knowledge acquisition. And we learn so much more in the outputs that we create and that working to push ourselves to think what who are we? What do we care about? How do I put myself onto the page? And that is a, it's a wonderful, wonderful twist in what has become. Yeah. A much more knowledge acquisition based curriculum and school system. And so we have, we have to find ways to bring more project based learning, more things like Night Zookeeper into the, you know, whether that's home education or in school education, it just, it has to be how kids learn because it's essentially learning through play.

Mark Taylor 00:19:39

Yeah. Which is Such a big thing in, in the early years conversation at the moment. And I think I, I'd really love, I love the sense of that conversation just being, it's just what we all need to do. We need to just stop capping it at a certain point. You're old enough now to be schooled, so let's be schooling. I mean.

Joshua Davidson 00:19:57

Yeah, exactly. Stop. We have to stop that thinking. We absolutely do. Because that, that is where we all go wrong. Like day to day are increasingly going to be. Can you imagine how to make a better world that will. With AI and the possibilities for access to instant sort of information and information with action, which is where, you know, the, the latest sort of forecasts of where this technology will go lead us to think. It is going to be only capped by our ability to take all of our emotional intelligence, all of our understand of humanity and the world and the problems in the world and then think of a solution to those problems. And that is essentially, that is creative thinking. And without nurturing that throughout an education, educational process in schools, we will be moving people further away from the possibilities of the future.

Mark Taylor 00:20:57

Well, I couldn't agree more. And I think, and I'm sort of yet to get to the answer or the bottom of the answer to this because I think what you demonstrated and you described there is absolutely key. We've already started hearing businesses talking in that way. We know there are societal things that need help and support and creativity in order to change what we need to do. Yet there isn't anyone that says, well we obviously need to nurture that. Even if you go back to the industrial revolution when the last sort of real education change was, it was because the country needed people to be more literate and more numerous in order to do the jobs that they did to make the country work in adverted commas. It's like, well, we kind of need that now from a creative to creativity standpoint, but we're not actually being brave enough to put that into the heart of it. Now the question is whether as soon as you have a bunch of thoughtful creative people, they're a little bit more thoughtful about everything that they do, which is quite hard to manhandle in terms of running a country and having control. That's probably a whole different debate. But I do find it interesting that lag between what we actually need and we know we're going to have to be part of to have a sustainable world and that that resistance to it, like you said.

Joshua Davidson 00:22:12

Yeah, no, I. Exactly, exactly. And I feel like the, you know, we are in a situation if you just take, you know, key stage one and Q stage two, where there are fundamental skills, fundamental skills that kids need to learn to be able to whatever career, whatever specialist knowledge they're going to develop, whatever ways that they're going to combine the knowledge, like I said about the ninja, like the things that they're learning that are into their head is all creating their unique personality of what they need to learn. And we need to make sure that we are teaching knowledge acquisition skills. We're teaching a love of learning and all of those things. But somewhere along the line we have to start making more time for them to see a reason for that knowledge and give them more opportunities to output with what they're doing. And that that does happen more in the sort of the Key Stage 1 stage. It is very much, you know, class display. We're going to make the next stage, you're going to make a book. And it is thought about in those ways. But it does start to dwindle as you get closer and closer to examinations. And that pressure is just on knowledge acquisition. And it won't. That knowledge acquisition will not matter if you cannot think with that information in your head. And we have to make sure that we are making very decisions, very clear space in a child's day to think what they want to do with the information that they have been acquiring. Not just passed an exam.

Mark Taylor 00:23:42

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean is a. As a musician myself, so I'm. I went to music college. I been a professional musician for more years than I need to remember now. Absolutely love it. But I still remember that feeling when I was at school and I was a musician because I had the opportunity to experience and learn something. And you know, the dwindling of the arts and all those things as Ken Robinson talked about in terms of those really key things that everyone should have the opportunity to do was I was a real gift for me. And I get pulled up on that sometimes because they say it shouldn't be a gift, it should be a. Right. Well, that's true. But I think we can all pretty much anecdotally say that it's not every child that has the opportunity to do it. But the reason I mention it is because it was only seeing the bigger picture of what I was doing that joined the dots to enable me to really love it. Because it's one thing going to a small classroom and having an individual lesson or a little group lesson, it's another then sat in a wind band or in an orchestra in a rehearsal Realizing that we're all sharing this and it sounds very different to then doing a concert and then your parents watching and family watching and then going out of school and doing it somewhere else and you're like, like, whoa, this is a whole different world. And I want to go in and actually practice because I want that to be better. I want to be able to do that sort of thing. And I think I, I sort of relate it to sort of football or sport and that kind of thing. You know, the reason I want to be able to do a million tricks in the playground is because if I get the opportunity to play for the school team, I want to be able to do that around someone I'm going to be able to beat. But I know I've got a match coming and I know this might happen and it makes so much sense. You can see why kids would just do it when that's the scenario.

Joshua Davidson 00:25:26

Absolutely. And we need to give them, you know, every opportunity to learn in that way. Because that is the learning that stays with you and does all of the, all of the silent, you know, building up of character so, you know, you've got your, your fantastic acronym of the different things. But you know, resilience jumping out there. Like you can't underestimate the what level you've taken a child to. From child learning instrument to child sat with other kids playing the instrument already hugely nextly playing for other people as part of that group. Next sleep joining a group outside of school and doing it in another. Like these are the leaps that ultimately will equip children for life. And there is nothing to say that we couldn't design curriculums around English, maths, science, geography, whatever topic. It's all skill building. These are all skills. These are not if you think of them in the right way. It's not a set of facts that you have to learn. You learn to write, you learn to write beautifully, you learn to recite what you've written and perform it for people. These are all things that could have product at the end output. And we don't do that. We just say, you need to know this because there's going to be an exam. And then we're all getting judged on whether you remember these facts. That is not how you build rounded people.

Mark Taylor 00:26:54

No, absolutely. And I did a recent series with Professor Dr. Gay Grass and we was talking about Shakespeare and it, we, we would discuss it. It's like, you should never do Shakespeare unless you've seen it, are playing it, doing it at school. Just sitting and reading is Like a small, tiny part of.

Joshua Davidson 00:27:14

Not everyone would be put off. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I mean the classic. We can look at it in our own society. I think the Radiohead have just scored a Shakespeare play, which I love. Like, of course that's, that's perfect because you've now taken something that people love and are totally engaged with and said you could soundtrack this incredible thing that is a little hard. In the same way you have to listen to a radio album three times before it's your favorite. Like, like Shakespeare. You're going to need to watch these plays a few times and study and live in these worlds to know that the writing here is at a level that is, you know, we are capable of understanding if we invest the time. Like a lot of things, things that are hard are worthwhile and I mean, we can get a little bit depressed about the world, but that, that is a sliding scale in our society. Like we are very much going for the ease and forgetting that if we always take the easy path and never take the hard path, the gratification will get less. Ultimately we'll all feel a little less happy in our lives because we are not doing the hard things that actually make us feel good.

Mark Taylor 00:28:21

Yeah, really, really true. So I want to slightly flip it now because from everything that you said in the journey that you've talked about, how is it for you from a creativity standpoint, moving from where Knights Keeper started to them being involved in the TV in terms of the books, what sort of practically the things you had to do and creatively what you had to do in order for those things to become a reality. But, but also how did it feel doing that and some of these skills that we're talking about having sort of literally lived through it in order to create something that people get to enjoy?

Joshua Davidson 00:28:59

Yeah, I mean, I think, I think first thing to say is that we had a mission at Night Zookeeper and we still have this really clear internalized mission of developing creative, confident kids and making them the center of anything we do. So the books are co created with kids. We ask them for stories that can be at the back. We ask them what jokes the characters might tell. At certain points they come up with locations we are co creating. And that meant that process was not so dissimilar to the process of creating the website because it was just saying, hey kids, hey community of kids that are creative and interested in opportunities to contribute to real things in the world. We're making books now. Do you want to be part of it? And then we did the Same with the show. We're making episodes of the show. We're going to be looking for new characters, new locations, props. What about a song that could feature here? You know, we've worked with the kids in our community and also because it was being supported by sky, we worked with Picture House cinemas, we worked with zoos across the country and we did a tour with BAFTA around to like different parts of the country and went into lots of different schools that we didn't normally work with. And it was lovely. We had like 180,000 ideas that sort of informed a 50 minute animation, which was a challenge creatively and it was almost like a new process of learning both, you know, how, how can you celebrate that many ideas and, and that much creativity in one output? And that led to some, you know, it led to an output like with the book, the books and the show. The books were a challenge because again, you could, could only have a certain number of years. But also once it's published, it's there. The show, once it's made, it's there. The site has been ever evolving, but we, we made the decision four years ago that the next thing that we did should be a video game, because a video game can live forever. So kids on Night Zookeeper have now spent the last four years coming up with locations, characters, props, ideas that can go into a video game. And then once that launches, which should be this year, that will be an ever evolving world where they're contributing their ideas, they're writing and they're drawing and they're coming up with all the things that can then be featured in it and that will never be finished. It will always be a living, breathing world. And I love that because that it just makes our decisions as a company really straightforward because we're just following that mission. We're following. What is it that we want kids to do? Oh, we want them to be able to create with output. I'm going to give them a reason to do that so that they lean forward in the chair and they want to get involved. And yeah, it complicates everything. It really does complicate everything because you have to have, you know, all the way through from what is the process of getting those ideas? What's the legalities of getting those ideas? How do we make sure that everything is as well represented as possible within each of these outputs? It, you know, there's been a lot of learnings there, but it always has come back to the same thing. And that, that guiding light has just sort of steered us in what, what we did do and I guess, I mean the other stuff we've done, like we, we played around with makey makeys in schools, which was this funny little device where you could stick nodes into anything and turn it into a games controller. So we had a spelling game where you had to jump on different platforms but you controlled it with a banana. And then we had, we played around with VR when that first came out. So there was a storytelling game where you just were sat on the back of a giraffe before you did your writing lesson and you had to describe what you'd seen. Little fun little things that were not ever, you know, the point wasn't the technology, wasn't the experience with the technology. It was the fact that you could after this thing go back to you what you wanted to do with it as a, as a child that we're learning and we're engaged and we're leaning forward. That kind of, I talk about like the ultimate assembly doesn't even need to be an assembly. Just the ultimate thing that is said or done that is going to get kids thinking and inspired and ready to learn. And so we've played around with technology from that basis. So the one magic trick that we're using AI for is that we always do drawing 2D drawings, but now the 2D drawings are going to become 3D characters inside the game. So it's still that true expression of the child's idea, but they see it in 3D hopping around in this incredible world that they're co creating and designing the game modes for. So it's just again, it's just that I can control this. I can, I can be someone who's influencing what's on the screen. Not, not just consumer.

Mark Taylor 00:33:47

Yeah, yeah. So we should probably talk a little bit about that. Well, sort of half an hour in we've left this whole creativity side. But for someone who's actually not involved in the online platform, people who've not actually experienced themselves tell people what that looks like in terms of, of their logging in. How are they writing, how are they drawing? How does that become what it is that they're engaging in?

Joshua Davidson 00:34:10

Yeah, so we are a full language arts curriculum. We learned pretty quickly through the journey that it was, it was hard to say to a parent, here's, you know, give us an extra bit of money for a creativity tool. Unfortunately, similarly for schools. So we are a full language arts curriculum. You know, we can take kids through their, you know, that their key stage skills and prepare them with everything that they need. To become effective written communicators, the process is still log on. Create yourself as a night zookeeper. Design your first animal. Tell us about it in small chunks of writing so the child doesn't really even think they're writing. There's no big blank page. They tell us answers as if they're in a chat with the, those zookeeper about this animal. And then we take their answers and present it to them as a piece of writing where they can read back and be like, oh, my goodness, I just made this. And it's all there, all their creation. But they've not ever had that daunting moment of what do I do? And then we've, we've, we, we will deliver to them as soon as we can, a comment. So we have tutors on the team that will read that writing and give them that first bit of feedback. And it will always be very complimentary. There might be one little note in the middle of something to tweak or change, and it will always end with an idea of something they could go on and do. So they've created the report, but they haven't started the story. Now they could tell us a story about their animal. Or maybe now they've created two animals and they want to go on an adventure. So they're starting to get to know this character that they've created. They're to starting that as part of this. They're getting to know the world of the night Zu and the fact that there are millions of these creatures that have been created by children around the world. And once it's published and they've had a tutor comment, if the parents opted in, then they can start to get comments again, moderated by tutors from other kids. So it's that blogging platform still very much alive, but within a curated community. So now they're getting comments from America, Australia, Canada. I love your animal. Oh, have you thought about this? And then they click on their profile, they say, oh, my goodness, they've been writing six chapters of a story about, you know, Eskimo elephants that live in the wilderness. And, oh, I could they read it a bit. I've had this idea for ages for a straw man story. Okay, I'll start to write. And they're just in, they're in the community and now they have an ongoing game which is, you know, very spag and it's teaching them words and vocabulary acquisition. But really the heart of Night Zookeeper is this create creative community and that output. So we have weekly writing competitions, we have our Project based learning where every month we have a new project which to do with the game or the books or the show or looking after the planet or whatever is the, the, the theme that we want them to think about that that month. And, and yeah, it's a living community and so kids can join that and even if they start as the most reluctant writer we have found and this is, you know, again with anything, it's the right moment, the right child, it has to fit. You need all of the other stuff to fall into place place. But it can work miracles for certain kids in certain places because it has taken away that fear and just given them a gateway to learning. And I said ongoing learning which is all based around them participating in this community.

Mark Taylor 00:37:37

I love that because I think community is obviously so incredibly important. And I think if we've taken everything we've spoken about today and put it into a school or into a classroom specifically with that sense of where can we go with this idea or even what is the idea, what's the world we're going to create as the adults, we can make sure as you've done, you know, there's, there are people there, there's tutors feeding back, there's, there's constraints, not constraints, I guess a place where the creativity has real ebb and flow with it. It's not just you can do absolutely everything and none of these words ever make sense or, or whatever that happens to be it as an educational tool. That's going to be the case. But that's the job of the teacher, that's the job of the educator, that's the job of us as grown ups to be able to create an environment which is both free enough to be creative but secure enough to actually know what we want them to be able to read and to write. And we know that maybe we want something sciency based on this because that's something we know we have to do because someone's telling us that. But the freedom and the creativity of teachers at that point to be able to come up with something and be led by the children and them feeling them, that would just change I think how so many people would be going to school and it wouldn't be 80% of children saying they go to school because they have to. It would be 80% of children saying I can't wait to get to school because look what we're about to do. And that I think would change so many aspects. Whether you're talking about mental health, well, being learning generally, people's general perception of what they're doing, and that's a very exciting prospect.

Joshua Davidson 00:39:15

Yeah, I agree.

Mark Taylor 00:39:17

Now, as you mentioned, the acronym FIRE is incredibly important to us here on the show. And by that we mean feedback, inspiration, resilience and empowerment. You mentioned it before, but what is it that strikes you, whether it's a single word combination that you think is really going to hit the mark?

Joshua Davidson 00:39:37

Yeah, I mean, look, as you. Every single one of these is, is at the real core of what I think education should be, I would say. Night, Zookeeper. We're, we're most heavy in the inspiration. You know, we, we, we sit there as a tool for educators, be they parents or teachers, to put something in front of their kids that's a bit different, that just doesn't, isn't part of the usual way that these things are taught. And if you're, you've got a gifted and talented students or if you've got, you know, reluctant writers, this can be that spark that just changes things. I would love to just throw in empowerment because I think at the core of our output, our legacy, if you like, as a company, we want to be about empowering kids. And that's why it's a kid's ideas in the books, it's kids ideas in the show, it's kids ideas in the game. Like this is at its core about saying, saying your ideas matter and you are part of shaping a better world. And that can exist in, in any aspect of output, like we've talked about. But that shift in attitude towards empowerment, I think is, is what I would like our legacy to be and what I hope our ongoing mission is as a company.

Mark Taylor 00:40:57

Well, I don't think there's much more to say other than keep going, because I think that's an absolutely brilliant philosophy. And I think, I think what I've taken away personally is that having that clear goal, that clear understanding, and that gives you the creativity and the flexibility to, to not stand back about what's possible, but to step into it and to be playful and, and, and see the world for the future that it's going to be, which is an exciting place as well as maybe a daunting place for some. But I think when you understand why and how the world can work, how children see it, and you see the tools for what they are, are, then you kind of feel like you're taking control of it because you've got the skills that you need, whatever the outcome is, because we don't know what tomorrow is going to look like, let alone 10 years or, or 15 so, Josh, thank you so much, indeed. It's been a fabulous conversation. Tell people where they can go and. And find out more if they're not already part of your community.

Joshua Davidson 00:41:49

Yeah. Please join us. It's night zookeeper.com we are night Zookeeper across all the various socials. And I'm Josh. Josh at nightzookeeper. Com, if anyone's got any thoughts and wants to discuss anything.

Mark Taylor 00:42:02

Amazing. Keep up the great work. And I can't wait to see how the game becomes a reality and evolves and all the feedback you're going to get from that. So, yeah, thanks so much. Indeed.

Joshua Davidson 00:42:11

Thanks, Mark. It's been brilliant.