Step Up Your School Leadership Game: Dr Cynthia Rapaido

Mark Taylor 00:00:40

Welcome back to Education on Fire. Today I'm delighted to be chatting to Dr. Cynthia Rapaido, a highly accomplished educator with over 30 years of experience in K12 education. She served as a high school principal, assistant principal and teacher and gained comprehensive understanding of the educational landscape across various schools and districts in California. Dr. Rapaido's dedication extends to higher education too, where she's contributed significantly as a faculty lecturer to dissertation advisor and university field supervisor at esteemed institutions such as the University of California, Berkeley, University of San Francisco and California State University, East Bay. Her passion for teaching, mentoring and coaching educators is evident by her continuing role as an educational leadership coach and consultant. Then in 2024, Dr. Rapaido published her first book, Step up youp School Leadership Game. The new Administrator's Guide. Lessons to Navigate Big and small Challenges with confidence and purpose. Hello, my name is Mark Taylor, and welcome to the Education on Far podcast, The place for creative and inspiring learning from around the world. Listen to teachers, parents and mentors share how they are supporting children to live their best, authentic life and are proving to be a guiding light to us all. Hi Cynthia. Thank you so much for joining us here on the Education on Far podcast. It's great to meet somebody who, one I know is passionate about music as well, but also somebody who has such a great experience across different age groups in education. And that idea of it not just being someone who's been in the classroom, but someone who's been involved in administration and principal and I think having that sort of umbrella and that global idea of the ins and outs of what makes education what it is now and the people invol and make this thing work, I think is brilliant. So, yeah, thanks so much for joining us today.

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:02:34

Thank you so much, Mark. And I'm happy to be here.

Mark Taylor 00:02:37

So why don't we start off with some of that experience and like, say from that sort of teacher role, getting into those more senior positions to then into coaching, it's sort of. It's a. It's a path, which I think is fascinating and something which the experience really sort of guides you, isn't it, for that next step?

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:02:53

I guess, yeah, sure. So I thought I was going to go into something in the medical field. So my major was biology. I loved music. I thought I was in marching band and I loved the music part. But then I said, I'm going to go to college, I want to go into the health field. But then I studied biology and when I graduated I thought, well, I think I want to go into teaching. So then I became a Biology teacher, biology chemistry teacher. And at the age of 23, I stayed in education, so did high school teaching, then transitioned to assistant principal and then principal and then retired and then now I continue to coach administrators, whether they're assistant principals or principals, as well as people going into the field of education. So those that are in the credential program, I coach them along so they can get their credential. So that whole spectrum of working from beginning teachers to administrators working with kindergarten principals, K12 and then I'm exposed to higher ed kids as well. So yes, there is a big, a big spectrum of age, but the focus is still education and coaching. Yeah, absolutely.

Mark Taylor 00:04:25

And so the sorts of things that you're going to be doing in that age range, are there some obvious similarities or does the age of the children or the people involved kind of change how some of that dynamic and some of that focus works?

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:04:39

I definitely see that there's a, a difference with kindergarten through fifth grade teachers as well as administrators that work with the elementary level kids. I think there's a little bit more sensitivity around the kids, their development, of course, the content of the subject matter, but even just the, the non sarcasm approach with the kids and then as they get a little older, not necessarily sarcasm works, I don't think it's a good thing to do. But the older they get in terms of the kids, the grade levels, there's more expectations of they can do it, they can do it as opposed to hand holding as they get into the middle school and high school. So even the teachers are different when they decorate their classrooms. Let's say an elementary teacher might decorate the classrooms with oh, here's all the great homework of everybody's work. And when you get to the high school, we, because I was a high school teacher, we don't post kids work up on the board and things like that. We put, here's a bell schedule, here's the, here's the calendar of the school year, here's the classroom expectations, here's the, there's not, there's some posters that are up, but there's, for the most part it's not like student work that goes up and not a lot of decorating per se. So yeah.

Mark Taylor 00:06:34

I mean that's kind of, I think most people listening will sort of understand that or have witnessed that and experienced it. But there's part of me that thinks that's kind of what happens because it's what's done and it's just the way that people relate at that sort of age. But do you think there's maybe a missed opportunity there for the relationships that you have with younger children to develop a slightly more organically as the children get older. Because I think like you say, you sort of, certainly here in the UK you sort of finish primary school, go to secondary school and it's almost over those six weeks, over the summer, you become a more grown up child and you have to get on with it. It looks very different. And I wonder whether sometimes a more kind of sort of graceful kind of transition into that further education in sort of age 11, 12, 13 actually might be sort of more supportive. Especially sort of if you think hormonally and those sorts of ages that children are there as well.

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:07:31

Oh yeah. I think, you know, when I see the, the different schools that I've visited in terms of coaching, when it's a K5 school, the kids are a little different as well as the teachers. But when it's a K8, there is this. The, even the students are role models for the younger ones, whether they get into sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade, which would be middle school, but not separating them out and keeping them at the K8 level. I mean there's definitely some pros and cons with that. They do mature and become role models for the younger ones. But then once they get to eighth grade, they don't know what it's like to get into 9th grade, 10th grade. There's no role models either until they get there. But then hopefully there is that transition where there's communication between the middle school and high school. We call them feeder schools. That way they know what that orientation will look like when that student does arrive to the school and that there's like you say, the hand holding. So once they get into the high school, I know from my own experience as an administrator wanting to make sure that the kids are connected with that orientation. So here, here's the introduction, here's what you can do. Here are the clubs you can join. Here are the teachers in your department that can help you, especially if they have special needs or if they're EL students. But even if they come mid year, it's important for them to get acclimated and not just okay, here, welcome, now here's your classes. No, we want to have somebody pair up with them, walk them around the campus and let them get familiar because, and then match them with an upper grade level person.

Mark Taylor 00:09:29

And in terms of the, the geography, in terms of the people that you coach, are they based on the sort of the west coast in terms of that or you now, because of technology and the way the world works, able to sort coach people Further afield.

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:09:45

Most of them are in the west coast, most of them are in California. But there is another group that I facilitate with the national association of Secondary School Principals, nassp, which is nationwide. And it's not so much of the coaching part, but it's now facilitating so people can be in that space online and will cover certain specific topics.

Mark Taylor 00:10:14

And I know it's different in, in the U.S. compared to here, just partly because of just the sheer size of the country, but the way the system works state to state has an implication which is slightly different here, where everything's a little bit more sort of national in, in terms of just being a smaller country. So when you're sort of talking about sort of a national organization, do you sort of notice the difference in the needs or, or the experiences of schools? So further afield, like you say, if they're more east coast or somewhere sort of towards the middle of the country, is there an obvious difference or what their kind of environment is like compared to maybe something you've experienced firsthand?

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:10:54

Yeah, there are some differences. So sometimes when we do have conversations, I can't remember which one, but it was recently. But there they. There are differences in terms of, let's say, credential wise or again, I don't remember the specific topic that we just covered, but when we share it, we're like, I'm unfamiliar with it and I just think, can you re explain that? Because I don't understand how that works. But then there are other things like let's say what is. So we just had one on instructional practices. And what do you do as an administrator to promote instructional practices at the school site so that everybody is on board. And so hearing what one person might do at the district office level in Wisconsin, another state versus California, where I'm at, again, there might be some differences, but then when we refer to textbooks that we use or books that we have been referred to that have strategies, then we go, oh, okay, so we do use the same tools and how do you go about training other people? So that way everybody's on the same page. So yeah, there are definitely differences. But sometimes it's kind of like, okay, well what do we do where it's common so we can move forward?

Mark Taylor 00:12:23

Yeah, and I think that's it. If you've got a sort of a common essence or a common understanding or like I say, even a framework in, in some way, how you take that and do it individually should be the case really because for in any school is different, let down to different states or a different part of the country. You want it to be sort of appropriate for where you are and what you're doing and whether that's topic or community based, it needs to reflect the children's experiences really. So it makes sense that there's a little bit more fluidity there.

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:12:54

Yeah, absolutely. I mean the next couple of topics that we'll cover will be even how do we engage parents? It'll be different from one, not just even the school site, but different states that are. How do they get different demographics involved? If you're in a rural setting, in a working class setting, how do you get again, parent engagement, family engagement. So it'll be an interesting topic for us to engage in. I think that's going to be like in a month or two.

Mark Taylor 00:13:29

Yeah, I mean it's just in the most simplistic way, I was just thinking there you are in California and then you've got someone you know, if you're going to be in Colorado or somewhere or you're just thinking, yeah, one's talking about maybe a beach related thing, one's talking about a mountain related thing, will be talking about skiing. Say if you're in the desert, you're like, there's a whole different world there. It's. It has to be different and should be different like you say. But it just sort of in that even that simplistic way, let alone all the nuances that happen within those sort of geographical areas.

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:14:04

Absolutely. And then even with what they value. So if we're talking about parent and family engagement, maybe culturally parents are really involved or they might not be involved because, you know, growing up their parents didn't get involved. So how do you get them to come to the school? So those are, you know, different topics that I always like to try to promote because it's not just the kids, but it's also the parent and family to, to be a part of the school.

Mark Taylor 00:14:36

Yeah, I love that. I've. I've had so many conversations recently related to that. In the sense that we're a community collectively. No matter where what your school is, in terms of what you're providing with the children, if you have the children at the center of what you're doing, of course the parents have the influence, the staff have a. Have the influence, the local community. And to be able to all work together makes perfect sense. Because a child isn't raised just by one particular element, it's raised by everybody's. And so you have to pull in all of those experiences and the more that you can work together and actually create environments and learning experience which include all of those people, then the world seems to make a lot more sense than it does. If it's just like I'm at home doing this, or I'm at school learning this, and it's just about my teacher this year, but then next year, that being so sort of compartmentalized just isn't the way the world works, is it? So the more cohesive it could be with all the people involved, you would think the more supportive for each child.

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:15:30

Yes. And especially even at the high school level, a lot of times people will think, oh, even at the middle school, sometimes they think that, you know, they're in high school now, let's let them go ahead and, you know, have their friends and they're grown up. But you know, from a school administrator's perspective, it's really important to still have parents involved, not just to watch their child, but also be familiar with what the school expectations are and how can you prepare their child for career and college opportunities. So it's kind of like don't lose sight of that growth in the child.

Mark Taylor 00:16:14

Yeah. And I think that the growth of the child and also the growth in the, in, in the age of everyone at that point, because while you might have your child going, oh, please don't come, please don't do this, please don't talk to me, please don't do any of those things. At the same time, you're like, yeah, but actually collectively knowing what's going on and what the expectations are and the interactions in the way you can be involved can be different, like say in those different age groups. But actually being involved is, is the important factor in being, being aware of everyone's needs in that are obviously key. Like you say teenagers wanting their parent to be stood by their side, doing that, doing something as a joint project, but actually being there when you, when you're needed. And therefore, like you say, understanding what's involved in the skill thing, that the key things, if it's like say whether it's taking a particular subject or a careers related thing, at that point they want you involved. And it's much easier to do that if there's been a continuation of that support, rather than let's come in for this careers day or this particular workshop day, because then everybody's already communicating and got a relationship of some point or another.

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:17:20

Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Mark Taylor 00:17:23

No, no, no. So take me into what it's like then. Using all that experience. So you've had the experience within the school system, like you say, being an assistant principal, principal and your coaching and then suddenly becoming an author, been able to pull all that into a book to help and support people. How was that as an experience and how was it sort of related to, you know, obviously wanting to help and improve the leaders, people that way. But like I said, we're not necessarily trained to write just because we happen to have been in education, for example.

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:17:57

Very, very true, Mark. I was not a very good writer. I'm a science person, so I can do it methodically. Like here's the materials, here's the procedures, here's the findings, and here's the conclusion. I can do that, no problem. But when it came to writing, doing my dissertation was totally a big experience, a life changing experience because I had to learn how to write scholarly and, and do, you know, primary sources, citations and a lot of editing. I wasn't used to that, but once I did that and that was 2011, I think. Yeah, 2000. Yeah, 2011. And I was still working as assistant principal then I thought years later, 2022, I thought, okay, I'm already coaching people and it's really important for them to know who they are. And there's all these different things that I would coach administrators what to do and coach teachers what to do. And that's when I thought I could write a book on this. But I'm going to need to, I really need to find out how to do this because it's not something I went to school to learn. So then I just went online and I found a program called self publishing that I. That provided everything that I needed from coaching to teach me how to edit, how to mind map. And so there's all of that and having it uploaded into Amazon. So they showed how to do that and those were the steps. But deep down inside, I mean, it was a labor of love of what else can I share with these new administrators? What else can I share so they don't fall into a position and have to learn on the spot? If there's a book as a mentor that can guide them, they can just read it in a couple of sittings and read it during the summer. So that way when they come into the job or position, they can be at least ready and then they can continue to refer to it throughout their initial years. Then that's what it's for. It's like being a mentor for $25. And I just know that I needed something like that. Because there's a lot of things that I didn't know how to do, or there's a lot of things that I had to learn, some hard learns, whether it's personal relationships or trust or the budget. So those are some of the things that I wrote about. And again, parent engagement, the students, how to get involved with the students. So a lot of that was included in the book.

Mark Taylor 00:21:03

So just take me through sort of the structure of it. Like you say, you could read it in a couple of sittings and then you can use it as a reference kind of thing. So are the chapters like you say, sort of topic specific like you said, or does it give you a bit more of a linear idea of the school year? What's the reading experience of someone who would come across to read it?

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:21:24

So if I were to break down the different sections of the book, and so each section has maybe three or four parts. The first section is basically know yourself. And as a leader, you need to know who you are and need to know your strengths and your areas that you need to focus on. So that way, when whoever you're working with or whoever I'm working with, I know how to continue to lead. We might have our differences, but how do I continue to lead and follow through with expectations? So that's the first section. And then the second section is hit the ground running. So you've got the keys to the building. Now what do you do? So it's kind of like these are the things you need to do. Get familiar with the grounds and then also build those relationships. And in the book it's like, who to build those relationships with and where do you need to walk around on the campus? Because you need to know, just like if you're the captain of the ship, you better know every nook and cranny of that ship. So it's similar with the grounds. And if it's a bigger height, if it's a high school versus an elementary school, you still need to know how far your boundaries are. And then the third section is the nuts and bolts. So that's all the paperwork, all the documents that need to be either updated every year or referenced every year. So accreditations, budget. So that's the nuts and bolts. And then the fourth section is those we serve. So those we serve, of course, are the students. So that's another chapter. And then the parents and family, and then the faculty and staff is those we serve. And then the last one is time, space, and energy. And that is about how to stay organized, how to get Organized, stay organized, how to take care of ourselves. So self care. And then embracing that role as an administrator. So it is somewhat linear, but you can also bounce around and go, I just want to know what I need to do to know myself and I need to know what to do once I get those keys. The rest of that I'll read it later on or I'm stuck now on the budget. What do I do with the budget? So you can easily bump into the next section or chapter.

Mark Taylor 00:23:54

Yeah, I love that. I can really sort of picture that sort of like say that framework working brilliantly. And I think so many of those different areas I'm not sure everyone thinks about in one go, which is like you say the important thing, you think, oh yeah, it makes sense about making sure you need to know about the budget or this or that. But like I say, just understanding all the grounds, the important relationships that you need and then the fact that you want to do this for a number of years so that you know, it's fine. I'm going to be in school at 5 and I'm going to leave at 10. Okay, but you're going to be doing that for not that long before the walls come sort of crushing down. I think, I think especially when you're younger as well, you sort of have a lot of a lease of life that think you can do it over and over in days and years, but of course you can't because time just catches up with you and you, you need to be in a position to do that, to be your best self, to help everybody else. And I think understanding leadership thing is probably a really key thing to get all those other areas right.

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:24:49

Oh, I love how you said that. Because that is the opening introduction of my book. It's, here's what my schedule looks like as an administrator. You know, four o', clock, the alarm goes off and boom, boom, boom, boom till 10 o', clock, 11 o' clock at night and what the next day looks like so it doesn't end. But do I put that at the beginning of the chapter as an intro to the book? Do I scare the people away and say this is a really demanding job or hey, this is what it looks like. And if you think this is something you want to do and commit to, it's here. It's just like saying, here's a book on marriages. Here's these are all the things that you need to do. I mean, I didn't write a book on marriage, but if there were an intro, what does that intro look like? And will it turn people away, or is it reality?

Mark Taylor 00:25:42

And that's really important, isn't it? Because you have to go into it with your eyes open, but at the same time, you're trying to do it in your way and make your mark. And I think that's where the personalities start to come in. You know, these are my boundaries here. I know the job looks like this, and it's almost overwhelming, but within that, this is going to work this way. This is me. This is how I like to interact. This is what's important for us as a collective community of staff. And then, like I say, those relationships with the children. And I think one of the things that's often overlooked is the kind of the modeling of all of that and how impactful that is to the community at large. You know, the way I am, not always just what I say, but it sort of becomes an integral fabric of what your school becomes and what your community becomes. And so that needs time, but it needs understanding from you. And it's not necessarily an explanation. It's just a kind of a thing that becomes part and parcel of what you're able to then provide as an experience for everyone involved.

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:26:38

Absolutely. What you just said there, too, Mark, is, you know, that modeling, it's being authentic as well. So once you're authentic with yourself, and this is how I am making myself approachable and being visible and connecting with everybody else, I think that's a huge part of that leadership. It's not so much of just staying behind the door and working in the office. It's really about connecting with everybody. Again, I think of it like a ship, right. If the captain doesn't know who else is on the ship, well, that doesn't really help. I think it's important that he knows or she knows everybody, whether they're the custodian or whether they're the welders or, you know, whatever position they are on the ship. Same thing with at the school. They need to know what's going on in the cafeteria behind the scenes.

Mark Taylor 00:27:43

And I think also it's that sense of, you want to make sure that you're well informed, don't you? Especially if you're starting a new job. Maybe you're young in your career doing it, because experience is key, and you can only learn from what you learn in person. But the. The ability to, like, say, have a mentor, to have a role model, to have a book, a resource which can give you so many insights, because it just. You don't know what you don't know, so by having that from people who've got that experience, it gives you so much more foundation. And I, I, this has come up a couple of times as well. It's, I'm really bad with the idea of a blank piece of paper. It's like, what am I going to write? What am I going to do? It's like, I've got a new job, how is it going to work? But if you've got that broken down for you, even if you disregard some things, even if you think I would do that slightly differently in each, you' a framework or an idea of something to work from based on something that somebody is saying, this is a good idea to think about it. And then you can kind of meld it into what you want it to look like as your experience starts to take over.

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:28:42

Yes. And to add to that, when you say the experience, I mean, I could talk from the perspective of when I was assistant principal and principal, but when I was a student, I never knew who the assistant principal was. I never went to the principal's office, so I never knew what they did. And then as a teacher, so because I didn't have that exposure to the principal, assistant principal, because I didn't get in trouble and I wasn't like the valedictorian of the school. So I'm just a number, right. And at the school as a student. So if I don't know what they do, then there's no reason for me to ever go there and learn about it. So when I went from teacher to assistant principal, that was a huge learning curve. Now I'm dealing with discipline. Well, guess what? I didn't really get in trouble. So I don't know how to discipline these kids and learning these ed codes and what suspendable, what's not suspendable, things like that. And then again moving from system principal to principal, again not really knowing what the principal does, but being able to see it in action from their modeling, I'm able to gather that and then put that in the book. So all that learning is based on my own experience from what that may look like for a teacher who again may not have gotten in trouble or been into the administrator's office but now can go, okay, now I think I'm ready to become an administrator because they've read the book.

Mark Taylor 00:30:25

And I think the other thing is, I mean, certainly here in the uk, lots of this is a generalization, but lots of teachers are younger in the profession maybe. And so like you said, their experience is what it was like when they were at school and then what it's been like to teach a train, to then go into school, which is probably not a million miles away from what they experienced as a pupil people. And yet what you don't get is that exposure or that understanding that you would have had two generations ago within that school system when it looked differently because the classrooms maybe were different or what you were teaching was different or the style that you were doing, or maybe the curriculum was a bit broader. And while you have to sort of move with the times and there's certain things you have to do, there's something about a universal knowledge of what learning's like and how you can pull things from history that worked really well, which, what, maybe, maybe it's not something you have to do now, but you know, the quality of it or the, the impact it will have on a pupil is something that you can get from that historical understanding. And so I sort of love that sort of human perspective from an experience point of view and the ability to guide that, which I guess is probably the biggest thing in terms of coaching in that sort of leadership, kind of being able to share some of those amazing ideas.

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:31:41

Yeah. And I think also, you know, in terms of what you kind of mentioned was their experience from what they were experiencing as a student. But when they go to college it's different because now it's like sit down and listen to the professor or listen to the lecturer. So it's kind of old school kind of way of teaching. I mean, some universities are now going online and it's on a platform, you can get your credential online. So how does that transfer to a teacher? Now that's going to be an elementary teacher. So there's the learning that you can learn online as a professional, but how do you make that into practice? I think that can get really tricky. So it's a matter of okay, if they even go and observe a class at their local neighborhood to see if they like that kind of job, that's really good to observe. And then if they want to try it, they can be a substitute teacher for a little bit before they actually jump into being in that position full time.

Mark Taylor 00:32:56

So yeah, I mean, I think there are many people who have that sense. It sounds lovely teaching a five year old all day as long as you know what that really means. Because that's very different than teaching a 15 year old. And like I say, how your energy levels are, the sorts of conversations you're having all day, the sorts of things that you're involved in and I think, like I say, if you've never experienced the range of that, how do you know? And like I said, I love the fact that putting all those sort of small steps in place to make sure you're truly understanding of what the role will be. And like I say, there's probably the same thing. Like, say if, when you're going from teacher into administration, maybe there should be even more of a kind of a chance to learn what that's all about, rather than just, it's now time for me to get that promotion or for me to further my career.

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:33:45

Right. And you know, when you think about subject matter, I mean, I know that you were a musician and then you taught music. I remember even talking to a teacher, a substitute teacher, and he would bounce around to different classes, of course, you know, teaching math or world language. And then he would go into the band and wonder, gosh, you know, band is a lot different than the other classes because you can get the class quiet, but if you want the class to work in band, there's a lot more noise and it's all the different instruments and having a student leader lead because they know how to play conductor in that role when the teacher's not there, because the substitute is just there to keep an eye on the students and making sure the lesson plan is carried out. But I just remember the substitute saying, it's very different from a musician's point of view because you want the sounds of the instruments very different from a quiet classroom.

Mark Taylor 00:34:54

Yeah, exactly. And I say the skill sets are very different than teaching master music. And I always think that in the same way being a teacher to becoming an assistant principal or principal, is that just because you were really good at communicating as a teacher and working with children and getting all that across, why that should necessarily mean you'll be a great manager or a great attribute to the school in that different type of role. And there's like, say that organicness isn't necessarily a given, and I guess it depends on the person and how much they want to learn and those sorts of things as well. But I do find that a fascinating kind of step, that there's an obvious path, except the fact it's not that obvious sometimes unless you have those skill sets. And there's no reason why you should have those skill sets.

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:35:40

Yeah, that skill set is very different from teacher to administration, and it could be learned again. You can just have a good mentor, a good role model, people that can help one grow.

Mark Taylor 00:35:56

And I guess that's why we need good coaches and the people that can actually help people to be able to do that, like I say, and get those skill sets going in. Yeah, obviously the acronym FIRE is really important to us here at Education on Fire. And by that we mean feedback, inspiration, resilience and empowerment. What is it that strikes you? Either one word that jumps out or collectively when you see that?

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:36:21

I think all of them strike me as a coach, as an administrator, when I think of feedback. It's important to be giving feedback to teachers, to administrators, as I'm coaching, but making sure that they understand that it's coming from the growth mindset that I want them to have and not, I'm not trying to get them for doing something wrong. But here's my feedback and here's how, you know, want you to reflect on it too. So that's also part of the resilience is taking that feedback and growing from it, that growth mindset. And then inspiration is, I hope, to inspire others, you know, whether they're considering to go into education. We need good educators, we need good administrators in education. So people who are listening, I'm hoping that they'll look into a career in education. But again, it's the teaching and coaching of these little minds of little elementary kids all the way up to adults. And then empowerment is really important too, because as a coach, I want to empower others to be the best that they can be. I think in education, as they say, education is the profession that leads to other professions. So I can be a biology teacher and these students that I have could be possible doctors, scientists. I'm empowering them to love the subject and to grow. So all of that is really important. So I love that acronym, feedback, inspiration, resilience and empowerment for fire.

Mark Taylor 00:38:14

Lovely, thank you. And I think just to, just to finish off on what you said there, I also, we talked about that sort of community level and understanding from before and the sense that, you know, if you love the sciences, if you wanted to be a doctor, actually understanding what it's like to be a doctor comes from having a conversation with a doctor. And I think that two way street of the community coming into the school, because I think so much as STEM is really important, we must learn about this. But it becomes really relevant when a doctor's there talking about how they work with patients and what they do and how their job is affected by the subjects that you're learning as part of stem. That's a very different conversation than I want to do physics or I want to do biology or how all those things fit together. And I think making those real world connections again are really key, which comes through that community and the and the work that everyone's doing. So, yeah, it's been fascinating chatting. I really love what you've done and how you've been able to pull those things together. We'll have links to the book and how to connect and all that on the on the show notes so people can find those things really easily. But I really appreciate your time today, Cynthia, and thank you so much for the work you're doing and look forward to sort of hearing what you do like say as your meetings and your topics continue further as well. In those different states and different education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting.

Dr Cynthia Rapaido 00:39:33

Thank you so much, Mark. I really enjoyed this conversation. I'd love to continue to chat with you even in the near future. This has been wonderful.